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A few questions in regards to star ships and the like


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#1 Fenderstat

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 11:42 AM

Hey Guys

 

1st one.  What's to stop an enemy ship or players instantly jumping to lightspeed when confronted with a superior force (the same with enemies)

2nd one.  Star charts.  Couldn't see anything in the book about them (maybe I missed the section?)  How could I incorporate them appropriately (I am not aq sci fi person).  I was thinking maybe to types of charts would be available?  One which would lower difficulty of astrogation checks and another to a completely new system that I could make up or something? 

 

What do you all think?


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#2 gribble

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 01:11 PM

Fenderstat said:

1st one.  What's to stop an enemy ship or players instantly jumping to lightspeed when confronted with a superior force (the same with enemies)

As per the (beta) rules, you add 1 difficulty to the check for "quick calculations or entry into hyperspace under duress". I'd be tempted to add additional difficulty die/dice, or upgrade difficulty die/dice for an "instant" jump.

In terms of star charts, the rules assume you already have them to be able to make the jump in the first place. For particularly recent and/or accurate star charts, I'd probably provide one or more boost die to the roll.


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#3 Darian Ocana

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 01:14 PM

And gribble beat me to it…. lol. At least I got the Han quote in.

 

"Traveling through hyperspace ain't like dusting crops, boy! Without precise calculations we could fly right through a star or bounce too close to a supernova, and that'd end your trip real quick, wouldn't it?"

 



#4 LethalDose

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 02:58 PM

Fenderstat said:

Hey Guys

 

1st one.  What's to stop an enemy ship or players instantly jumping to lightspeed when confronted with a superior force (the same with enemies)

2nd one.  Star charts.  Couldn't see anything in the book about them (maybe I missed the section?)  How could I incorporate them appropriately (I am not aq sci fi person).  I was thinking maybe to types of charts would be available?  One which would lower difficulty of astrogation checks and another to a completely new system that I could make up or something? 

 

What do you all think?

I think this is a pretty reasonable question.  There's a substantial amount written about FTL travel in SW in the Astrogation section of the skill chapter and the Hyperspace Travel section of the Starships & Vehicles chapter (p 71 & 164, respectively), but they never provide a base time to plot/calculate the course prior to making the jump.  Looking back at previous SWRPGs, Saga edition said it took 1 minute to make the calculations, and WEG 2nd Ed RE states the calculations conditionally 1 minute to 1 day in the skill section (p48) and later "about half an hour" in the Space Travel & Combat Chapter (p118).  Also they point out "Many freighter captains caluclate coordinates while still at the spaceport to so they can make a jump quickly if they're attacked by pirates.  So what does all this mean?  Not a lot, really, because the rules should never get in the way of telling the story.

As a GM, I follow these guidelines, in order of decreasing priority:

  1. The duration of the calculations takes as long as it needs to take for the purposes of the encounter I'm running
  2. The duration of the calculations should stay relatively consistent
  3. The written rules should apply where appropriate

So your original question about "What keeps players/enemies from immeadiately jumping into hyperspace to avoid a fight?"  

The answer is: Nothing beyond the GM's design.  

And that's pretty much it.  And with no published calculation times in the Beta (gribble, if I missed, please let me know. Again.), we can't use three.  The way I've dealt with the issue in the past is that if it matters how long it takes to plot a course (e.g. there's an encounter in space before the players make the jump), as GM I decide how long I want the encounter to last, and then say it takes that long to plot the course.  For example, If I want the players to have to about survive 6 rounds against a flight of TIEs, then I tell them it takes 6 rounds to plot the course.  If they already plotted the course on the ground, then I tell them it takes 6 rounds to get to the position where they have to jump.  If you want the players to to destroy a set of enemy ships, don't give the ships hyperdrives and don't have them run.  If you want the ships to escape, don't rely on a set time frame, have the ships jump away when it's dramatically appropriate.  If you want to allow the ships to escape or be destroyed based on the players' performance, set a duration that you think would be a "good" performance by the players.

As for star charts… Why do you need them?  For the characters, It's assumed they have the appropriate tools at their disposal to make the calculations, or there are difficulty penalties imposed.  For the Players/GM, the star charts provide travel times between star sytems, which may important for planning travel and interesting to see seeing where systems are in relation to each other.  There wasn't a galaxy map included in the beta book, but I bet there will be one somewhere in the final product's 400+ pages.

And if there isn't one there, any of these should suffice.

And if that doesn't work, try to get your hands on some of the old WEG books.  They had fharts that listed travel drations between major ports.

The duration of travel, IMO, should follow the same rules I've laid out above.  

Hope that helped.

-WJL


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#5 gmbaal

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 04:33 PM

My 2 cents comes from a few years running the old WEG Star Wars stuff. I'm just now scheduling my first running of Edge of the Empire. You can find a lot of good information out there on sites such as http://starwars.wiki.../wiki/Main_Page you can even find galaxy maps and such on there. 

So the way that I do things when calculating how long it will take players to make the jump to hyper is 1, how common is their intended destination for either the group and/or is it on a major hyperspace route. If it's on a major hyperspace route then the calculations would be faster asuming they too are close to this route. The further off the beaten path they are the longer. But a good rule of thumb, based on Star Wars stories out there, it's going to take at least 15 to 20 seconds to make the basic calculations so a minimum of 2 to 3 rounds modify this by how difficult the path is and there you go.

As a GM always remember that story should be a priority. You want to have fun and tell a good story… don't forget the drama. As long as the players know from the start of what to expect they will adapt to it. Or as another option, make it akin to a complex action, you need X number of successes for that calculation and let the dice be your measuring stick. I do stuff like that a lot in a lot of systems. 



#6 Kallabecca

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 06:04 PM

gmbaal said:

My 2 cents comes from a few years running the old WEG Star Wars stuff. I'm just now scheduling my first running of Edge of the Empire. You can find a lot of good information out there on sites such as http://starwars.wiki.../wiki/Main_Page you can even find galaxy maps and such on there. 

So the way that I do things when calculating how long it will take players to make the jump to hyper is 1, how common is their intended destination for either the group and/or is it on a major hyperspace route. If it's on a major hyperspace route then the calculations would be faster asuming they too are close to this route. The further off the beaten path they are the longer. But a good rule of thumb, based on Star Wars stories out there, it's going to take at least 15 to 20 seconds to make the basic calculations so a minimum of 2 to 3 rounds modify this by how difficult the path is and there you go.

As a GM always remember that story should be a priority. You want to have fun and tell a good story… don't forget the drama. As long as the players know from the start of what to expect they will adapt to it. Or as another option, make it akin to a complex action, you need X number of successes for that calculation and let the dice be your measuring stick. I do stuff like that a lot in a lot of systems. 

Just keep in mind that EotE "rounds" can be anywhere from a few seconds to a minute or more in length. They aren't fixed like certain other systems.



#7 LethalDose

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 07:24 PM

gmbaal said:

As a GM always remember that story should be a priority. You want to have fun and tell a good story… don't forget the drama. As long as the players know from the start of what to expect they will adapt to it. Or as another option, make it akin to a complex action, you need X number of successes for that calculation and let the dice be your measuring stick. I do stuff like that a lot in a lot of systems. 

+1 to this.  I think I may give this a shot in my games.

-WJL


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#8 gmbaal

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 12:54 AM

Kallabecca said:

gmbaal said:

 

My 2 cents comes from a few years running the old WEG Star Wars stuff. I'm just now scheduling my first running of Edge of the Empire. You can find a lot of good information out there on sites such as http://starwars.wiki.../wiki/Main_Page you can even find galaxy maps and such on there. 

So the way that I do things when calculating how long it will take players to make the jump to hyper is 1, how common is their intended destination for either the group and/or is it on a major hyperspace route. If it's on a major hyperspace route then the calculations would be faster asuming they too are close to this route. The further off the beaten path they are the longer. But a good rule of thumb, based on Star Wars stories out there, it's going to take at least 15 to 20 seconds to make the basic calculations so a minimum of 2 to 3 rounds modify this by how difficult the path is and there you go.

As a GM always remember that story should be a priority. You want to have fun and tell a good story… don't forget the drama. As long as the players know from the start of what to expect they will adapt to it. Or as another option, make it akin to a complex action, you need X number of successes for that calculation and let the dice be your measuring stick. I do stuff like that a lot in a lot of systems. 

 

 

Just keep in mind that EotE "rounds" can be anywhere from a few seconds to a minute or more in length. They aren't fixed like certain other systems.

 

Yeah, I was going with the asumption that you were in a combat situation where the heavier force is bearing down on you and it's more how long do we have to survive before we can make the jump type thing. 



#9 Fenderstat

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 05:46 PM

If someome jumps into hyper space is there anyway in the lore to track where they jumped to and follow them?


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#10 Kallabecca

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 06:39 PM

IIRC, yes and no. The course the ship jumped when going into Hyperspace is known (with a certain margin of error). From that heading the probable destinations can be identified, but that doesn't allow you to know if the first ship went all the way or dumped out early to start a new jump sequence.



#11 Kallabecca

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 06:40 PM

gmbaal said:

Kallabecca said:

 

gmbaal said:

 

My 2 cents comes from a few years running the old WEG Star Wars stuff. I'm just now scheduling my first running of Edge of the Empire. You can find a lot of good information out there on sites such as http://starwars.wiki.../wiki/Main_Page you can even find galaxy maps and such on there. 

So the way that I do things when calculating how long it will take players to make the jump to hyper is 1, how common is their intended destination for either the group and/or is it on a major hyperspace route. If it's on a major hyperspace route then the calculations would be faster asuming they too are close to this route. The further off the beaten path they are the longer. But a good rule of thumb, based on Star Wars stories out there, it's going to take at least 15 to 20 seconds to make the basic calculations so a minimum of 2 to 3 rounds modify this by how difficult the path is and there you go.

As a GM always remember that story should be a priority. You want to have fun and tell a good story… don't forget the drama. As long as the players know from the start of what to expect they will adapt to it. Or as another option, make it akin to a complex action, you need X number of successes for that calculation and let the dice be your measuring stick. I do stuff like that a lot in a lot of systems. 

 

 

Just keep in mind that EotE "rounds" can be anywhere from a few seconds to a minute or more in length. They aren't fixed like certain other systems.

 

 

 

Yeah, I was going with the asumption that you were in a combat situation where the heavier force is bearing down on you and it's more how long do we have to survive before we can make the jump type thing. 

Which was fine about the statement of 15 - 20 seconds… I was talking about your conversion to the D20 measure of rounds, heheh.



#12 LethalDose

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 08:18 PM

Fenderstat said:

If someome jumps into hyper space is there anyway in the lore to track where they jumped to and follow them?

Well, in ANH, the empire put a tracking beacon on the Falcon at the remains of Alderaan, and followed our plucky hero's to Yavin, so there's one way.

Also, what Kal said.

-WJL


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#13 That Blasted Samophlange

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 04:55 PM

Fenderstat said:

Hey Guys

 

1st one.  What's to stop an enemy ship or players instantly jumping to lightspeed when confronted with a superior force (the same with enemies)

2nd one.  Star charts.  Couldn't see anything in the book about them (maybe I missed the section?)  How could I incorporate them appropriately (I am not aq sci fi person).  I was thinking maybe to types of charts would be available?  One which would lower difficulty of astrogation checks and another to a completely new system that I could make up or something? 

 

What do you all think?

What's to stop somone from jumping to lightspeed when confronted by a superior force?  The answer is absolutely nothing (apart from a slightly higher calculation difficulty).  This is actually a good thing.   The party should know that running away is a viable tactic.  You don't have to fight everything - in fact, some fights CAN'T be won.   Also, a smart villian or adversary will ALWAYS have a contingency plan, and for space battles, that means having a pre-plotted escape route.  

Also, ships are expensive.  Better to runaway and save that star destroyer, than have to build a new one.

 

As for star charts, to me, it's all about plot.  An old info could just have setback dice applied.  Jumping along a know hyperspace route should have boost dice added.  Easy peasy.

 

Speed of plot = (distance x time) / (heroic luck - villianous plotting) + chase for the Macguffin.

 

 


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#14 aramis

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 10:54 PM

Fenderstat said:

 

Hey Guys

 

1st one.  What's to stop an enemy ship or players instantly jumping to lightspeed when confronted with a superior force (the same with enemies)

2nd one.  Star charts.  Couldn't see anything in the book about them (maybe I missed the section?)  How could I incorporate them appropriately (I am not aq sci fi person).  I was thinking maybe to types of charts would be available?  One which would lower difficulty of astrogation checks and another to a completely new system that I could make up or something? 

 

What do you all think?

 

 

 

Item 1: 
1a: calculation difficulties
1b: safe distance from world
1c: Already been ID'd, so running would raise more suspicions later.
1d: Sometimes, anywhere you can calculate is too far for remaining power.
1e: Sometimes you have to get the cargo from A to C, despite what's shooting at you at B, in between them.
1f: An interdictor Cruiser has it's gravity projector on you.
1g: damag to the drive
1h: spend a dark destiny point to say "the reverse power coupler is ionized" or similar technobabble for "it's broken"
1i: failed astrogation roll results in no course.

2: Charts are, generally, not something we get a lot of in Star Wars… 

 

"These average times are modified by a ship's hyperdrive class. and can be further modified by the Game Master at his discreticn due to complications with the Astrogation check, fluctuations in the route, outdated charts, or any other reason he sees fit." (Beta, p. 165) This is a case for the GM to totally mess with players on failed rolls, possibly even to ignore the principle of 1 fail is no worse than 5 fail.






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