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the problem with HAMU XX 15:14


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#1 COCLCG

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 04:15 AM

I was going to keep it till Regionals / Nationals but meh. I don't think I'll even be participating. It's fun and all, the atmosphere is nice, but come the finals I find myself a bit bored with the decks I'm facing. I'm happy with the other 'johnnys' on-line, surprising each other with the clever, devious and innovative tricks you don't see at tounaments, and that suits me just fine. I don't need accolades to know that I'm just that darn good - Hahahahaha (poke poke). I've already pulled this one on them, been there / done that, and I'm moving on.

So I'll just blurt it out.

Hamu XX 15:14 can be abused. Badly.

Of course all you need is a lunatic or 2 (and won't the Cthulhu / Hastur decks be a yawn this year), and once you've got the Hamu and Painful Reflection in hand it's bye - bye opponents draw phase (throw in a Power Drain and it's complete shut down).

Then there are the slightly more complicated combos like Master of Amulets / Hamu / Deranged Diva / (Scotophobia) to drive all the opponents characters insane during the draw phase in a (Scotophobia) / place Hamu / drive insane / pick up Hamu and extra card / ready insane by discarding with Master / place down Hamu again loop. It's actually quite a simple (3) card combo that ruins most Human decks.

Called to the Sea / Hamu is another simple every turn back in hand that shuts down most decks without investigation icons.

And once you've got 2 x Hamu XX 15:14 it just gets ridiculous.

This is the deck I've been working on. I've kinda foresaken my first ever deck combo of Shub / Yog (and the strategy I developed for them) now it's become mainstream (instead I'm off to start a new trend - hee hee - once again poke poke). I'm still fiddling as I'd like a couple of Named by the Unnamable's in there as well and it's certainly nowhere near unstoppable. No deck is. And of course first you have to draw Hamu. But it's boring as poo pie to play against when it clicks.

 

THE CHIMES OF BEDLAM

3 x Jade Salesman
3 x Brood of Yig
3 x Deranged Diva
2 x Dangerous Inmate
2 x Demon Lover
3 x Somnambulant Dreamer
3 x Elise Warren
3 x Carl Stanford
2 x Crazed Arsonist
3 x Master of Amulets
3 x Thing from Nightmare
3 x The Terror of the Tides

3 x Hamu XX 15:14
2 x Get it Off!
2 x A Single Path
3 x Called to the Sea
2 x Scotophobia
3 x Power Drain
2 x Painful Reflection

 

Of course the bane of all Prophecy decks are the millers (curse you honourless scamps), so I think we may see a few more of these this year. Though Power Drain does help (and can be regathered with Hamu - of course - what can't??). Willpower is probably the most effective reply to the deck, but I don't see a lot of that these days and I'm sure there's probably a fix for it if I could be arsed (though Called to the sea / Demon Lover and Somnambulent every turn can go a long way to getting rid of some of these). As always, depends on the draw.

There's a long list list of abuses I've found. As long as you mix it with Cthulhu or Shub for Snow Graves protection there are some pretty nasty cards you can keep circulating every turn (including the self realising Shub / Hastur prophecy double), and you in no way have to go 'crazy' with it as I did with the above deck (which was really just an experiment to realise it's full potential but opens up some weaknesses).

Anyway. I think you get the point.



#2 COCLCG

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 04:50 AM

***************************EDIT ABOVE****************************



#3 COCLCG

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 06:05 AM

***************************EDIT ABOVE*******************************



#4 Danigral

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 08:04 AM

Is there any word that a new iteration of the FAQ might address the problem of designating targets before paying costs? I would think that technically, you must choose which card actually in the discard you are returning before Hamu is discarded to pay the cost. This would make a difference mostly to the Por XV (cthulhu) prophecy, since it specifically says 2 cards, but would impact this one as well in that you couldn't recur it indefinately.

Whisper in the Wind / Hamu would be fun too…



#5 COCLCG

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 09:48 AM

I'm just going off the post from Jhaelen in the Rules Answered thread:

Rule Question:
What is the proper timing for Prophesy cards?
E.g. Hastur's Hamu XX 15:14 says:
"Response: After a character is made insane, discard Hamu XX 15:14 from the top of your deck to choose up to two cards in your discard pile. Add those cards to your hand."
Can I choose the Prophesy card just triggered as one of the cards to be added to my hand from the discard pile?

Answer:
Yes. You pay the cost of the card and then choose its targets.

I think it's totally farcicle too but I've been bum pumped before over a rules decision that destroyed a couple of my decks so I'll be damned if I'm not going to make use of yet another whack choice - haha. As I said in that post, the ONLY logical explanation for it being this way is if the discard pile itself is the chosen target, and not the cards in particular. I dunno.



#6 .Zephyr.

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 04:44 AM

Maybe this ruling was a misunderstanding and what was ment is picking a copy of Hamu with another Hamu?

After Apeirophobia was nerfed i switched to Lunatics + Painful Reflection, event recursion really boosts it, especialy with Whisper in the Wind. I used Alyssa, but Hamu is kanda stupid, and recurring Hamu + Whisper in lunatic dacek is simply insane… it hink some discard recursion hate would be nice, maybe in next yog expansion that is to focus on discard play there will be some neutral that shuts it down.



#7 Runix

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 12:32 PM

I think we definitely need more tools for dealing with discard pile recursion rather than Ye Olde Snowe Graves.  Stone on the Peak is an option for Shub, and a couple of the other factions have some tools.  Umr at-Tawil is an interesting option for Yog for dealing with Prophecy-based strategies.

And if super-insane-powered Hastur is the direction the metagame is going, Granny Orne could be coming into her own.



#8 Darkman

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 06:53 PM

Just solve the weird timing issues to get cards back after using their own (sacrificing) effect. I just don't understand the logic about the timing rules about those cards. You sacrifice or play a card to get someting else back and not the card you just sacrificied/played. Thats just wrong.

This always leads to some sort of inifinite combo and infinite combo's are no fun (imo). If they hit the table its a instant win, how could that be fun,



#9 COCLCG

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 04:45 AM

im not a fan either. thats why i never use this deck (or any other stupidly easy to build 'power deck'). they're no fun to play or play against. IMO (god i hate that acronym) any deck that is a single purpose deck is insanely boring to play. you spend the whole game trying to get your 'combo' into place, over and over and over again, every game. i prefer decks against decks that simply play out and have some tricks and are a real battle of the minds that require intelligence to play, not just a waiting game to pull off some 'game over' stunt, or rely on cards like Nodens or other 'one card wonders'. i just built CHIMES OF BEDLAM cause i could, and only pull it out once in a while to really test any of my groups decks that are proving strong.






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