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Use of heroes' stamina…


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#1 MatBat

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 03:03 AM

 

Sorry if I'm digging up an already resolved topic.

My gaming group and I (as the overlord) are having a blast with the new edition, but we still have a lot of doubts regarding the uses of stamina.

 

A) My heroes refuse to use stamina to get additional moves, stating that it's not what the rule is written for. I know that the forum consensus is that you trade stamina for additional movement, allowing for a movement + 2 free actions.

The heroes argue that:

"A hero may suffer fatigue to receive additional movement points during his turn. For each fatigue suffered, the hero receives one movement point. […] A hero player is not required to perform a move action in order to suffer fatigue to move. During his turn, before or after resolving an action or during a move action, a hero may suffer fatigue to gain movement points." 

means that they still have to spend a movement action to use those gained movement points.

I argue that the movement action, as it’s written, allows the hero to convert the move stat into movement points. So they are actually free to move anytime, using whatever movement points they have (gained by “movement” or suffering fatigue).

 

B) If the above it’s true and 1 fatigue = 1space movement, can the heroes suffer fatigue more than one time during a turn?

For example: suffer 1 fatigue to move – action A – suffer another 2 fatigue to move – action B.

 

C) Fatigue and stamina (p. 13).

Can a hero voluntarily suffer more fatigue than stamina to pay for an action, and thus suffer one ore more wounds instead?

As the rule is written it seems that the hero cannot do that by choice, and that the game effects that force him to suffer fatigue in excess must be “external”.

Sorry for any confusion and thanks in advance.



#2 Rico

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 01:48 PM

A) Every hero has a pool of movement points consisting of their Speed plus any Fatigue they choose to convert. Fatigue used for movement is not considered an action.

B) This is valid.

C) This is invalid.  A hero can only use up to his total Fatigue. If, however, an action against the hero cause loss of Fatigue beyond his total THAT amount is converted to damage taken.



#3 Steve-O

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 01:55 PM

MatBat said:

"A hero may suffer fatigue to receive additional movement points during his turn. For each fatigue suffered, the hero receives one movement point. […] A hero player is not required to perform a move action in order to suffer fatigue to move. During his turn, before or after resolving an action or during a move action, a hero may suffer fatigue to gain movement points." 

The answer to your first question is right there in black and white.  You do not need to perform a Move Action in order to move using fatigue.

Frankly, though, if your hero players refuse to spend fatigue for movement without spending a Move Action, as OL I'd just let it be.  You've told them how the rule really works and they're only handicapping themselves by refusing to believe you.  Knowing how to use fatigue-move is huge for the heroes.

In contrast, the OL has no monsters with fatigue, so you aren't losing anything by this particular misinterpretation.

MatBat said:

B) If the above it’s true and 1 fatigue = 1space movement, can the heroes suffer fatigue more than one time during a turn?

Yes, a hero may suffer as many fatigue as he likes (as long as he doesn't exceed his Stamina) in order to gain as many MPs.  He doesn't even need to spend them immediately.  A hero could spend 3 fatigue to gain 3 MPs, move 1 space, Attack, and then move 2 more spaces.  Then he could drink a Stamina potion to refresh his fatigue and spend MORE fatigue to continue moving.  Like I said, knowing how to use this rule is key for the heroes.

Incidentally, if a hero gets hit by a pit trap, he CANNOT spend a fatigue then and there to gain an MP and avoid being Stunned, however, if he has unspent MPs from before, gained by suffering fatigue "up front" as it were, then he CAN use one of those MPs to avoid being Stunned.

MatBat said:

Can a hero voluntarily suffer more fatigue than stamina to pay for an action, and thus suffer one ore more wounds instead?

No, he cannot suffer fatigue beyond his Stamina for any "voluntary" reason.  This would include gaining MPs and paying for any of his own skills.  It could arguably also apply to any effect that gave this hero the option of spending fatigue for some benefit, even if that effect was initiated by another hero (I'm not actually sure if any such effects exist.)

He only suffers wounds in place of fatigue if he is forced to suffer fatigue, generally from an enemy effect that doesn't give him a choice in the matter.



#4 Visitor Q

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 02:57 AM

This is kind of interesting because our group treats fatigue as an extra to a move action rather than as a way of moving and attacking twice.  Mind you the OL is kind of up against it in our campaign having lost every encounte!   So we probably won't change anything.



#5 Robin

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 07:19 AM

Steve-O said:

Frankly, though, if your hero players refuse to spend fatigue for movement without spending a Move Action, as OL I'd just let it be.  You've told them how the rule really works and they're only handicapping themselves by refusing to believe you.  Knowing how to use fatigue-move is huge for the heroes.

I concur. 

 

Fatigue move is a key tactical element of the game and is certainly part of the design (I believe it already was in Descent 1st ed.).

But if your heroes want to loose, why resist them? reir
Try to convince them to also limit their attack actions to only one per turn, to be "at odds" with the monsters… and you will, as an evil OL, have won the day (and all those that follow).burla


An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered.
G. K. Chesterton

#6 MaximumPain

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 04:39 AM

Using Staminia for movement is a main tactic I use when playing the heroes. Its also why I almost never select a stamina 3 hero unless they have a very good set of advantages.  Sorry no fatties on my teams you have to be able to run a mile and still fight LOL.

One thing I do is use a stamina or two to get into position to make 2 attacks with my hero.

Another nice tactic is instead of moving at all just burn up the rest of your stamina then rest to have a full account again. Often times a hero doesnt need their full movement to get into position. With some heros they get more movement points by doing this then by taking a normal move action.

As the OL if the heros dont use their stamina effectivly I usually crush them.

All that being said then new punisher line of OL cards seems designed to counter my normal playstyle… hmmm and our current OL has chosen some cards from that set I wonder why? LOL



#7 Rico

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 10:50 PM

MaximumPain said:

Another nice tactic is instead of moving at all just burn up the rest of your stamina then rest to have a full account again. Often times a hero doesnt need their full movement to get into position. With some heros they get more movement points by doing this then by taking a normal move action.

I am confused at what you are describing here.  Which heroes get more movement points by resting - the rest action only gives back fatigue after the end of your turn. Can you clarify?



#8 Dam

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 11:48 PM

Basically any hero with more Stamina than Speed (Grisban from base game as Speed 3/ Stamina 4, Corbin has 3/5). So if Corbin uses all of his Stamina, he can move 5, and still has both actions left (although one could very well be Rest), but he's gotten almost twice as far as he would with a move action (and is only vulnerable to 1xPit Trap from the Basic OL cards, 2xTripwire only works against move actions).


"A dirty mind is its own reward."


#9 Rico

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 01:22 AM

Yes. I am familiar with this tactic. Thanks for the clarification.



#10 Zogwort

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 12:18 PM

On page 8 of the rulebook it says the following in bold print: "A hero player is not required to perform a movement action in order to suffer fatigue in order to move."

So yeah, by refusing to follow this, you heroes are basically breaking the rules for the Overlord's benefit! 

Its ok I missed that part also when I had a very similiar question as yours. ^_^



#11 OverWard

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 12:22 PM

Dam said:

(although one could very well be Rest)

To confirm, Rest only constitutes one of two actions in a turn i.e. heroes can attack and rest?



#12 Robin

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 06:05 PM

OverWard said:

Dam said:

(although one could very well be Rest)

To confirm, Rest only constitutes one of two actions in a turn i.e. heroes can attack and rest?

Yes (but stamina only is recovered at the end of the heroe's turn, whether rest was declared as first or second action).
An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered.
G. K. Chesterton




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