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10 or 12 objectives?


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#1 Kordos

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 06:03 PM

So 10 Objectives is the min for a deck, there is no max but of course more cards mean a more clogged deck

 

but has anyone done the math on increasing your deck to 11 or 12 objectives? I was just looking at making changes to one of my decks and wanted to add an extra 2 x objectives sets but didn't realy want to drop anything

 

the extra objectives would help and compliment the rest of the cards and would include more cards that I can and will use

 

and it isn't like cards really go to waste in this game - not with having to commit units to the force and participate in edge battles plus you can always discard a card at the start of your turn 

 

thoughts?



#2 MasterJediAdam

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 06:07 PM

Kordos said:

So 10 Objectives is the min for a deck, there is no max but of course more cards mean a more clogged deck

 

but has anyone done the math on increasing your deck to 11 or 12 objectives? I was just looking at making changes to one of my decks and wanted to add an extra 2 x objectives sets but didn't realy want to drop anything

 

the extra objectives would help and compliment the rest of the cards and would include more cards that I can and will use

 

and it isn't like cards really go to waste in this game - not with having to commit units to the force and participate in edge battles plus you can always discard a card at the start of your turn 

 

thoughts?

Think the rulebook dictates a 50 card command deck (which = of course 10 objectives. 


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#3 Kordos

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 06:19 PM

Deckbuilding, page 28

 

 

 he must first choose an 
affiliation card as the foundation for his deck. After 
doing so, he chooses at least 10 eligible objective 
sets to form his deck. 
 
And
 
While 10 is the minimum number, there is no maximum 
number of objective sets a player may include in his 
deck. A smaller deck, however, will usually run more 
efficiently than a larger deck, and therefore may be 
more reliable in tournament play.


#4 ScottieATF

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 07:53 PM

MasterJediAdam said:

Kordos said:

 

So 10 Objectives is the min for a deck, there is no max but of course more cards mean a more clogged deck

 

but has anyone done the math on increasing your deck to 11 or 12 objectives? I was just looking at making changes to one of my decks and wanted to add an extra 2 x objectives sets but didn't realy want to drop anything

 

the extra objectives would help and compliment the rest of the cards and would include more cards that I can and will use

 

and it isn't like cards really go to waste in this game - not with having to commit units to the force and participate in edge battles plus you can always discard a card at the start of your turn 

 

thoughts?

 

 

Think the rulebook dictates a 50 card command deck (which = of course 10 objectives. 

Nope.



#5 agnos

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 07:57 PM

Right now, the obvious choice is 10.  If you rate pods by giving 1 star for each good card, 1/2 star for each ok cards and 0 stars for any mediocre or less card, then you'd see very few pods with a 4+ star rating (on a 0-6 scale).  I think a large marority of the 36 pods score around 3-3.5 stars.  The pods that you commonly see played have the most stars.  For example:

Pod 1 -- 5 (1 star Hero's Journey, Luke, Trust Your Feelings, Dagobah Training Grounds, 1/2 star Jedi Lightsaber, Twilek Loyalist)

Pod 13 -- 2.5 (1 star Mobilize the Squadrons, Rebel Assault, 1/2 star Xwing)

Pod 15 -- 5.5 (1 star Questionable Contacts, Han, Swindled, Twilek Smuggler, Cloud City Casino, 1/2 Crossfire)

Pod 19 -- 4.5(1 star Fall of the Jedi, Vader, Force Choke, Heat of Battle, 1/2 star Vader's Lightsaber)

Pod 25-- 3 (1 star Shadows of Dathomir, Rancor, A Disturbance in the Force)

I know that when I am deckbuilding usually there are 6 'pre-set' objectives and the question is what the last 4 objectives are.  Now if mill becomes a viable strategy or more threat dense pods come out, then I could see going up to 11 or maybe 12.  But really I don't think any good player has any reason right now to lower his opportunity to draw good cards as often not drawing good cards can cause you to lose.  



#6 MasterJediAdam

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 02:30 AM

I stand corrected. Thanks for the clarification.


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#7 TGO

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 03:40 AM

agnos said:

 

Right now, the obvious choice is 10.  If you rate pods by giving 1 star for each good card, 1/2 star for each ok cards and 0 stars for any mediocre or less card, then you'd see very few pods with a 4+ star rating (on a 0-6 scale).  I think a large marority of the 36 pods score around 3-3.5 stars.  The pods that you commonly see played have the most stars.  For example:

Pod 1 -- 5 (1 star Hero's Journey, Luke, Trust Your Feelings, Dagobah Training Grounds, 1/2 star Jedi Lightsaber, Twilek Loyalist)

Pod 13 -- 2.5 (1 star Mobilize the Squadrons, Rebel Assault, 1/2 star Xwing)

Pod 15 -- 5.5 (1 star Questionable Contacts, Han, Swindled, Twilek Smuggler, Cloud City Casino, 1/2 Crossfire)

Pod 19 -- 4.5(1 star Fall of the Jedi, Vader, Force Choke, Heat of Battle, 1/2 star Vader's Lightsaber)

Pod 25-- 3 (1 star Shadows of Dathomir, Rancor, A Disturbance in the Force)

I know that when I am deckbuilding usually there are 6 'pre-set' objectives and the question is what the last 4 objectives are.  Now if mill becomes a viable strategy or more threat dense pods come out, then I could see going up to 11 or maybe 12.  But really I don't think any good player has any reason right now to lower his opportunity to draw good cards as often not drawing good cards can cause you to lose.  

 

 

 

I think I would add an 11th pod if it were Recon Mission or Hit and Run.  Most of the cards in those pods are edge dependant so you should be using them in edge battles.

This card game doesnt seem to fit the mold of every other CCG, meaning that you use the minimum deck size.  The card velocity in those games is significantly different in those games compared to this.  Sure, your initial odds of drawing a good first hand are lower but your odds also increase a lot faster than other CCGs as well. 

Overall, I agree that right now the density of good cards just is not there so its rather pointless to put more bad cards in your deck. 



#8 JustinMcBride

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 12:11 PM

I too have noticed that as playing as the Rebels, I have occassionally upped the objective deck to 11 to include a single copy of Hit and Run. It allows the Rebels the opportunity to really take advantage of 3 of each fate card, while only really dilluting your draws by .5%.


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#9 agnos

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 04:26 PM

Odds  for 50 card deck

(# of X specific cards in deck -- at least 1 In first 7 -- at least 1 in first 14 -- exactly two in first 7 -- exactly two in first 14)

(2 -- 29.71%  -- 48.54% -- 1.71% -- 7.43%)

(3 --  41.43% -- 63.57% -- 4.50% -- 16.71%)

(4 --  51.40% -- 74.42% -- 7.85% -- 24.89%)

(6 -- 66.99% -- 87.74% -- 14.79% -- 33.73%)

(8 -- 78.02% -- 94.36% -- 20.52% -- 33.01%)

(10 --  85.68% -- 97.53% -- 24.13% -- 26.81%)

 

 

Odds  for 55 card deck

(# of X specific cards in deck -- at least 1 In first 7 -- at least 1 in first 14 -- exactly two in first 7 -- exactly two in first 14)

#    -- 1 in 7   --  1 in 14  -- 2 in 7  --   2 in 14

(2 -- 27.21% -- 44.78% -- 1.41% -- 6.13%)

(3 -- 38.19 % -- 59.37% -- 3.76% -- 14.22%)

(4 -- 47.70% -- 70.31% -- 6.66% -- 21.88%)

(6 -- 62.96% -- 84.49% -- 12.92% -- 31.79%)

(8 -- 74.17% -- 92.15% -- 18.52% -- 33.61%)

(10 -- 82.30% -- 96.17% -- 22.58% -- 29.71%)

 

Before anyone goes crazing looking at these numbers wondering odds and such, the first two stats are figured out using a null equation figuring out the odds of not drawing any in of X cards from Y deck and then subtracting those odds from 1.  The second two stats are figured out for the odds of drawing exactly two of X cards from Y deck; if I were to expand it to at least two, then that would be significantly more work.  Just realize that the odds of drawing at least two would actually increase with fewer cards in deck rather than decrease.  The point behind the maths is that more cards dilutes the concentration of your deck.  So if you want to risk what I consider a minimum of 1 in 25 games difference (not seeing Luke/Han or Emperor/Vader in first 14), then go right ahead.  The pro play is almost always to play the smallest legal decksize as it gives you the best odds to get what you want.



#10 MasterJediAdam

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 05:32 PM

agnos said:

Odds  for 50 card deck

(# of X specific cards in deck -- at least 1 In first 7 -- at least 1 in first 14 -- exactly two in first 7 -- exactly two in first 14)

(2 -- 29.71%  -- 48.54% -- 1.71% -- 7.43%)

(3 --  41.43% -- 63.57% -- 4.50% -- 16.71%)

(4 --  51.40% -- 74.42% -- 7.85% -- 24.89%)

(6 -- 66.99% -- 87.74% -- 14.79% -- 33.73%)

(8 -- 78.02% -- 94.36% -- 20.52% -- 33.01%)

(10 --  85.68% -- 97.53% -- 24.13% -- 26.81%)

 

 

Odds  for 55 card deck

(# of X specific cards in deck -- at least 1 In first 7 -- at least 1 in first 14 -- exactly two in first 7 -- exactly two in first 14)

#    -- 1 in 7   --  1 in 14  -- 2 in 7  --   2 in 14

(2 -- 27.21% -- 44.78% -- 1.41% -- 6.13%)

(3 -- 38.19 % -- 59.37% -- 3.76% -- 14.22%)

(4 -- 47.70% -- 70.31% -- 6.66% -- 21.88%)

(6 -- 62.96% -- 84.49% -- 12.92% -- 31.79%)

(8 -- 74.17% -- 92.15% -- 18.52% -- 33.61%)

(10 -- 82.30% -- 96.17% -- 22.58% -- 29.71%)

 

Before anyone goes crazing looking at these numbers wondering odds and such, the first two stats are figured out using a null equation figuring out the odds of not drawing any in of X cards from Y deck and then subtracting those odds from 1.  The second two stats are figured out for the odds of drawing exactly two of X cards from Y deck; if I were to expand it to at least two, then that would be significantly more work.  Just realize that the odds of drawing at least two would actually increase with fewer cards in deck rather than decrease.  The point behind the maths is that more cards dilutes the concentration of your deck.  So if you want to risk what I consider a minimum of 1 in 25 games difference (not seeing Luke/Han or Emperor/Vader in first 14), then go right ahead.  The pro play is almost always to play the smallest legal decksize as it gives you the best odds to get what you want.

Agnos, you and your math … Thanks for the stats. I used to run these when building magic decks to decide on decksize and # of card inclusion - especially when I was younger and didn't have the access to cards like I do now.


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