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Powerarmor - Upgrades?


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#1 Toronus

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 11:22 AM

Hi everybody,

I am the RT in our game, and my PF met with a PA in lucky circumstances, so I have a Powerarmor. The question is:

- Can I have the "Lathe-wrought" upg. to the armor? Or is this UPG possible only if I acq a new armor? Only when it was made? The description confused me a little…

- How many max. UPG. should an armor have? 2? 3?

- Wich faction (adeptus who? :P ) can make me a Hexagrammatic ward for the armor?



#2 Fgdsfg

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 11:38 AM

Toronus said:

Hi everybody,

I am the RT in our game, and my PF met with a PA in lucky circumstances, so I have a Powerarmor. The question is:

- Can I have the "Lathe-wrought" upg. to the armor? Or is this UPG possible only if I acq a new armor? Only when it was made? The description confused me a little…

- How many max. UPG. should an armor have? 2? 3?

- Wich faction (adeptus who? :P ) can make me a Hexagrammatic ward for the armor?

Lathe-Wrought is specifically only for new armours; you cannot upgrade a pre-existing armour with Lathe-Wrought, short of remaking it entirely.

There is no RAW limit to the number of upgrades any one item can have. In theory, you can have any and all upgrades that are not mutually exclusive. You'll have to talk this over with your GM, because it is up to him to rule what is reasonable and what is not.

Hexagramatic Wards.. that's actually a pretty good question. I would say that if you would actively go out of your way to try and get Hexagramatic Wards, it would fall within the purview of special Adeptus Mechanicus cults, the Adeptus Astra Telepathica, or the Inquisition.

This is an excellent opportunity to have a run-in with the Empyric Engineers hereteks of the Adeptus Mechanicus, that would definitely have what you seek.


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Talking Necrons. Dreadknights. Centurion Armour. Sororitas-murdering Grey Knights.
These things are dumb and do not exist. This is non-negotiable and undebatable.


#3 susanbrindle

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 11:45 AM

Yeah, Lathe-Wrought means that the armor is made out of special lathe metals, using the special gravity forges of the Lathe worlds. You can't really just slap it onto something any more than your Fantasy RPG character can drag his full plate to the blacksmith and say "Can you make this out of mithril?"



#4 Fresnel

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 12:39 PM

Hostile acquisitions p63. It is up to the GM how many upgrades are allowed, but generally the limit is 3.

 



#5 Fgdsfg

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 12:46 PM

Speaking of something ridiculous, while I was looking over the Hexagramatic Wards (The Inquisitor's Handbook, pg. 189) and the Immateria Ward (The Radical's Handbook, pg. 192), I noticed that they were both "Very Rare". This means that if your Starting Acquisition in Rogue Trader is of Very Rare or lower, you could actually take an armour with both.

So I took another look. And I found the Sanctified Carapace (Blood of Martyrs, pg. 117). Very Rare.

And unless the way I'm reading this is off, that'd amount to:
Common-Craftsmanship Sanctified Carapace with Hexagramatic Wards and Immateria Ward:
6 AP, 18kg; +30 bonus on Tests made to resist any direct psychic attack or manipulation. Blocks up to 6 Corruption Points from explosure to warp material. Double AP against attacks of psychic force or warp energy that directly deal damage (12 AP). Blocks an additional 6 damage caused by psykers (18 AP). Blocks an additional 6 damage caused by daemon's force (12 AP) and warp energies (18 AP) Maintains full AP (6 AP) against weapons with the Warp Weapon quality. Attacks from the armour (gauntlets) counts as Sanctified. Imposes -10 to all WP-checks on supernatural entities in 20m.

That's one sweet armour for those religious radicals amongst us.


Real men earn their fun

Unified WH40kRP Ruleset Homebrew - Personal Notes
Talking Necrons. Dreadknights. Centurion Armour. Sororitas-murdering Grey Knights.
These things are dumb and do not exist. This is non-negotiable and undebatable.


#6 HappyDaze

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 09:18 PM

Fgdsfg said:

Speaking of something ridiculous, while I was looking over the Hexagramatic Wards (The Inquisitor's Handbook, pg. 189) and the Immateria Ward (The Radical's Handbook, pg. 192), I noticed that they were both "Very Rare". This means that if your Starting Acquisition in Rogue Trader is of Very Rare or lower, you could actually take an armour with both.
 

That's the highest level of Availability found in DH. Converting it to RT and it could be anywhere from Very Rare to Unique (likely Extremely Rare, IMO).


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#7 Toronus

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 10:56 PM

Wow, thanks for all of you!



#8 Fresnel

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 12:51 AM

Very Rare does sound too low for such powerful effects.

As well as increasing them to Extremely Rare, imo a GM would be well within bounds to rule that you cannot have both Sanctified and Hex Wards.



#9 Fgdsfg

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 01:27 AM

HappyDaze said:

Fgdsfg said:

Speaking of something ridiculous, while I was looking over the Hexagramatic Wards (The Inquisitor's Handbook, pg. 189) and the Immateria Ward (The Radical's Handbook, pg. 192), I noticed that they were both "Very Rare". This means that if your Starting Acquisition in Rogue Trader is of Very Rare or lower, you could actually take an armour with both.

That's the highest level of Availability found in DH. Converting it to RT and it could be anywhere from Very Rare to Unique (likely Extremely Rare, IMO).

While I am inclined to agree that a GM could or should adjust the rarity of such a thing, or rule that the Hexagramatic Wards simply do not stack with the Sanctified Carapace, Dark Heresy does have the full Availability spectrum. From Ubiquitous to Unique. Not entirely sure exactly which book onward they added it.

They really should release a unified armory book for the entire line, with adjusted availabilities and such. But I'm speaking RAW as it stands right now.


Real men earn their fun

Unified WH40kRP Ruleset Homebrew - Personal Notes
Talking Necrons. Dreadknights. Centurion Armour. Sororitas-murdering Grey Knights.
These things are dumb and do not exist. This is non-negotiable and undebatable.


#10 Toronus

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 01:44 AM

What about the Ironclad Heavy PA (ItS 129.p.) and the Lathe-wrought?

The armor has a -20 Agility penalty, because it is extremely cumbersome. But if the armor is made from Lathe material, how does it effect the Agility penalty?

RAW or racional mind?

Waht do you think about the function of Sprint talent in a PA?



#11 Fgdsfg

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 02:05 AM

Toronus said:

What about the Ironclad Heavy PA (ItS 129.p.) and the Lathe-wrought?

The armor has a -20 Agility penalty, because it is extremely cumbersome. But if the armor is made from Lathe material, how does it effect the Agility penalty?

RAW or racional mind?

Waht do you think about the function of Sprint talent in a PA?

By RAW, Lathe-Wrought upgrade does nothing to change the Ability Penalty, and I would argue that that makes perfect sense. While Lathe-Wrought does decrease the weight of something, this is because it is inherently of Best-Craftsmanship; furthermore, while one could argue that weight does constrict mobility and agility, I would say that in most cases, the reduction of Agility is due to the size and shape of an armour.

And by extension, I would say that RAW and rational mind matches up just fine here. You would need some hell of a good argument to remove any part of that -20 Agility.

Sprint talent makes perfect sense in PA. PA's carry their own weight, and Sprint just lets you.. well.. Sprint. There's nothing saying you can't sprint in Power Armor. Just watch out for wooden stairs.


Real men earn their fun

Unified WH40kRP Ruleset Homebrew - Personal Notes
Talking Necrons. Dreadknights. Centurion Armour. Sororitas-murdering Grey Knights.
These things are dumb and do not exist. This is non-negotiable and undebatable.


#12 HappyDaze

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 01:51 PM

Fgdsfg said:

HappyDaze said:

 

Fgdsfg said:

Speaking of something ridiculous, while I was looking over the Hexagramatic Wards (The Inquisitor's Handbook, pg. 189) and the Immateria Ward (The Radical's Handbook, pg. 192), I noticed that they were both "Very Rare". This means that if your Starting Acquisition in Rogue Trader is of Very Rare or lower, you could actually take an armour with both.

That's the highest level of Availability found in DH. Converting it to RT and it could be anywhere from Very Rare to Unique (likely Extremely Rare, IMO).

 

While I am inclined to agree that a GM could or should adjust the rarity of such a thing, or rule that the Hexagramatic Wards simply do not stack with the Sanctified Carapace, Dark Heresy does have the full Availability spectrum. From Ubiquitous to Unique. Not entirely sure exactly which book onward they added it.

They really should release a unified armory book for the entire line, with adjusted availabilities and such. But I'm speaking RAW as it stands right now.

 

Show me any evidence that Availability ratings of Near Unique or Unique appear in either the Inquisitor's Handbook or the Radical's Handbook. Since we are talking about those books, your RAW doesn't pan out "as it stands" in the sources you quoted.


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#13 Fgdsfg

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 02:54 PM

HappyDaze said:

Fgdsfg said:

 

HappyDaze said:

 

Fgdsfg said:

Speaking of something ridiculous, while I was looking over the Hexagramatic Wards (The Inquisitor's Handbook, pg. 189) and the Immateria Ward (The Radical's Handbook, pg. 192), I noticed that they were both "Very Rare". This means that if your Starting Acquisition in Rogue Trader is of Very Rare or lower, you could actually take an armour with both.

That's the highest level of Availability found in DH. Converting it to RT and it could be anywhere from Very Rare to Unique (likely Extremely Rare, IMO).

 

While I am inclined to agree that a GM could or should adjust the rarity of such a thing, or rule that the Hexagramatic Wards simply do not stack with the Sanctified Carapace, Dark Heresy does have the full Availability spectrum. From Ubiquitous to Unique. Not entirely sure exactly which book onward they added it.

They really should release a unified armory book for the entire line, with adjusted availabilities and such. But I'm speaking RAW as it stands right now.

 

Show me any evidence that Availability ratings of Near Unique or Unique appear in either the Inquisitor's Handbook or the Radical's Handbook. Since we are talking about those books, your RAW doesn't pan out "as it stands" in the sources you quoted.

I.. don't really see how that's relevant in the context of RAW, because - as it stands - the rarity is Very Rare. There's no conversion schemes or such for the game, to make older books adhere to newer rules, so by RAW you have to take them at face value.

Just to be clear here in case you missed it; I'm agreeing with you. It should be adjusted, since Dark Heresy didn't include Extremely Rare, Near-Unique or Unique (I also don't think it had Ubiquitous) until.. Ascension and upward, I think. But, since we are talking about The Inquisitor's Handbook and The Radical's Handbook, as it stands, by RAW, the rarity is unadjusted.


Real men earn their fun

Unified WH40kRP Ruleset Homebrew - Personal Notes
Talking Necrons. Dreadknights. Centurion Armour. Sororitas-murdering Grey Knights.
These things are dumb and do not exist. This is non-negotiable and undebatable.


#14 HappyDaze

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 06:49 PM

Then the RAW is incompatible with conversion to RT and RAI needs to be used so claiming RAW says its ok just makes you look stupid (to me). RAW also gives it a cost in Thrones and since RT characters never have Thrones, per RAW they can never gain anything from Dark Heresy. Hence why following RAW for these conversions is idiocy.

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#15 HappyDaze

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 08:51 PM

Please ignore the above. I should avoid posting when work has me irritated. Sorry about that.

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#16 Fgdsfg

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 04:53 AM

HappyDaze said:

Then the RAW is incompatible with conversion to RT and RAI needs to be used so claiming RAW says its ok just makes you look stupid (to me). RAW also gives it a cost in Thrones and since RT characters never have Thrones, per RAW they can never gain anything from Dark Heresy. Hence why following RAW for these conversions is idiocy.
Except that the cost in thrones has no effect in Rogue Trader, which is actually spelled right out. The fact that things *have* a Throne Gelt value (or not) doesn't matter. Like I said, I would encourage any GM to adjust for these things, because there are certainly issues that may arise from doing things like this, for very obvious reasons. But it doesn't change the fact that by RAW, the Availability is Very Rare. You just can't get away from that very simple, very clear fact.

I think this argument just highlights the need for a unified Armory. They should start churning out generalized books for the WH40k line, that applies to all Campaign Settings at once. I assume similar issues would arise if you take Rogue Trader gear into Dark Heresy, since Rogue Trader doesn't list the Throne Gelt price. Does that mean that they're free? Arguably. But you'd be an idiot to argue for it while in an actual game.


Real men earn their fun

Unified WH40kRP Ruleset Homebrew - Personal Notes
Talking Necrons. Dreadknights. Centurion Armour. Sororitas-murdering Grey Knights.
These things are dumb and do not exist. This is non-negotiable and undebatable.


#17 Fresnel

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 05:21 AM

You might argue that no item in a DH book (or any non-RT book) can be RAW within RT. I.e. there is no rule written on Sanctified Armour in RT.

In this context the GM is on firm ground vetoing its use or changings any stat he likes before allowing it.



#18 Fgdsfg

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 05:50 AM

Fresnel said:

You might argue that no item in a DH book (or any non-RT book) can be RAW within RT. I.e. there is no rule written on Sanctified Armour in RT.

In this context the GM is on firm ground vetoing its use or changings any stat he likes before allowing it.

The GM is on firm ground in vetoing everything's use or changing any stats before allowing it in all contexts. sonreir


Real men earn their fun

Unified WH40kRP Ruleset Homebrew - Personal Notes
Talking Necrons. Dreadknights. Centurion Armour. Sororitas-murdering Grey Knights.
These things are dumb and do not exist. This is non-negotiable and undebatable.


#19 Fresnel

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 06:20 AM

Some players beg to differ on this issue… Perhaps you have never met (or been) one? :)



#20 lurkeroutthere

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 06:39 AM

Fresnel said:

Some players beg to differ on this issue… Perhaps you have never met (or been) one? :)

Those players if they are absolutely insistant are usually the ones not asked to come back to games. I can't speak for anyone else, but I'll take counsel, advice, opinions, and differing viewpoints, but ultimaely at my tables at least rules are entirely within my singular authority. Players that don't like it are free to find another game. There are always more people wanting to play then people willing to run in my observation. I'm not trying to pick a fight, i've just never had these problems that some people describe outside of living campaigns.






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