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Am I the only person who thinks these HON scenarios are exponentially hard?


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#1 DurinIII

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 01:44 AM

My group (4 of us) have yet to beat a single one of the scenarios from the latest HON set. Why? Because the decks are much harder to defeat than preveious packs. I am in favor of a challenge, but not like this. Thematically, there is absolutely no reason a couple Southrons can kill 6+ awesome heroes of Middle-Earth, but guess what, they do! Why? Because the stacking abilities that FF gave these guys are ridiculous. Any tips on beating these scenarios? 



#2 Cutievalkyrie

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 02:14 AM

Try a solo game…



#3 Glaurung

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 02:53 AM

DurinIII said:

My group (4 of us) have yet to beat a single one of the scenarios from the latest HON set. Why? Because the decks are much harder to defeat than preveious packs. I am in favor of a challenge, but not like this. Thematically, there is absolutely no reason a couple Southrons can kill 6+ awesome heroes of Middle-Earth, but guess what, they do! Why? Because the stacking abilities that FF gave these guys are ridiculous. Any tips on beating these scenarios? 

I also was shock in  the begining. But with time i lear how to beat it even wioth my old decks. HON is good, really good!


Wizard is never late.......

 

Glaurung playtrough LOTR LCG on youtube :

http://www.youtube.com/user/olegyd   


#4 Ted Sandyman

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 03:55 AM

DurinIII said:

My group (4 of us) have yet to beat a single one of the scenarios from the latest HON set. Why? Because the decks are much harder to defeat than preveious packs. I am in favor of a challenge, but not like this. Thematically, there is absolutely no reason a couple Southrons can kill 6+ awesome heroes of Middle-Earth, but guess what, they do! Why? Because the stacking abilities that FF gave these guys are ridiculous. Any tips on beating these scenarios? 

The into Ithilien quest is hard as thematically we are a few heroes added to a band of rangers who are taking on an army from the south that outnumber us. The cards are not individual enemies, they are scouting parties etc. hence the high attack stats. My own record is poor against the HON set. Peril in Pelargir = 2 wins 11 losses, Into Ithilien = 1 win 19 losses. So dont give up, our decks have just got to be very specifically designed to handle these toughies.



#5 GrandSpleen

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 06:26 AM

I'm coming around and liking the box more.  At first I was surprised by the difficulty and got frustrated.  It took us 3 tries to beat Pelargir, and at the time it left a sour taste in my mouth.  But looking back I rather like the scenario.  I think the design fits the theme well.

Ithilien was just way too hard for me.  Watching Glaurung's scenario, I realized that we approached it the same way: fast, fast, fast.  Don't give the staging area time to build up; take some enemies out of the staging area but not too many, because killing them is not going to be your focus here.  Explore Ithilien Road on turn 1 or suffer the consequences.  Anyway, I arrived at those ideas after 5 or 6 games and it still took us 5 or 6 games more to win.  Maybe this is one of those scenarios that is easier to beat solo?  I don't know.  I only know that there are a lot of nasty cards in the deck, and more players means more nasty cards and not necessarily more ways to deal with them (because, well, the "quest fast" strategy is to NOT deal with cards in the first place).

What I really don't like about Ithilien is that I think the design doesn't fit the theme at all.  The player is rewarded for avoiding enemies and getting to Cair Andros as quickly as possible, especially in multiplayer games where swarms of enemies spill out of the encounter deck.  This is supposed to be a battle!  It's great that there are lots of enemies, but you should be encouraged to fight them more.  I wish this would have been something more like The Hills of Emyn Muil, only with enemies instead of locations.

We tried The Siege of Cair Andros the other day and I loved it.  We got stomped, but it was fun :)  We played it blind (no prior knowledge of the encounter deck) like we always do, and I felt like we were going OK, but we lost the Bank and stage 2 of the quest destroyed us.  So we didn't even get all that far.  But I've retooled the decks now and we'll see how it goes next.   Again, thematically I think it's well-designed.  You're rewarded for protecting (exploring) key locations, perfect game mechanic for a siege.



#6 Ellareth

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 06:43 AM

I have yet to play HoN with 3~4 players.

Just thinking about the encounter card, I think you may be right.
Assuming not all 4 players have access to 3 copies of everycard, Pelargir might get easier with more players but I don't think that is the case with the other 2 scenarios.

Into Ithilien, now you have much greater chance of encountering Blocking Warg (hate to think how often 2 or 3 of these would go off in a single turn if you are to reveal 4 cards even if you were to pack Eleanor) and if you get Southron Support after few turns, you have to pick Mumakil due to lack of Harad Enemies (since 4 Southrons would be in the staging area in set up).

And there are so many nasty when-revealed effects in Cair Andros. With much greater chance of revealing Battling Ram and other such enemies in turn 1, I wonder if it is even possible to keep Approach alive. Plus defence stats doesn't grow much with number of players unlike WillPower or AttackStrength. And most of all god save you if you get Power of Mordor as 3rd or 4th card.

Ahhh… now I want to try this with 3~4 players.. it sounds really fun in a frustrating way.



#7 Dain Ironfoot

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 07:06 AM

Yes, from what I've seen/experienced, these quests are significantly easier solo and much, much, much harder when you add players.



#8 GrandSpleen

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 09:07 AM

Frustrating but fun is a good description!

4 more losses against the Siege under my belt.  We switched to a explore-the-locations-ASAP strategy, and got The Banks explored during the planning phase of turn 1 in two different games.  Mostly, though, games only went 1 or 2 turns after that and we had to quit.  It's the shadow effects!  They chain and chain off each other, so it was not uncommon for an enemy to have 5-7 shadow effects on him in one attack (and there's a good chance for one of those effects to be the Haradrim Elite: "attack again!").  We had some shadow effect cancelation but it's like holding up a tree leaf to protect yourself against the storm.

Well, we'll see what comes after the next deck retool…



#9 RGun

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 10:19 AM

I am really enjoying these scenarios, but I too am getting crushed.  I decided to start playing solo 2-handed for HoN, expecting it to be more fun but quite a bit easier.  Boy was I wrong.  I was right on the fun part but so far I am 1 W, 10 L against Peril in Pelargir and 0 W, 12 L against Into Ithilien so overall win rate is about 5%.  I strated out trying to play Gondor and Rohan decks, and then switched to Dwarf and Eagle decks.   thought I was going to win my last game but made a bonehead play and had victory snatched from me at the last minute.  It did give me encouragement that I could win with my decks though.  As a comparison my win rate previously playing solo 1-handed was about 30%.

I am really curious to see what the new player cards will be in this cycle as I expect they will make it much easier against these quests.  As most people have said, Into Inthilien is not a difficulty 4 quest using the current card pool but it may likely end up being that difficulty level when you have the pool of cards from the new cycle at your disposal.



#10 leptokurt

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 10:45 AM

I've played the first two scenarios so far. Yes, they're hard, my win ratio for PiP is roughly 50 percent. But most losses are close, most due to Collateral Damage threating me out. II is even harder, but my Gondor Deck managed to get 3 wins out of 7 so far. I had one game that I won with a threat of 49, and my last game was a total blast: 11 turns in which I survived a Blocking Warg and killed 3 Southron Companies, 2 Southron Mercenaries and 1 Haradrim Elite. The Morgul Spider survived but would have been killed, too, if the adventure hadn't been over already. After such a game I don't mind if loosing the following 2-3 games.

However, I am a bit worried about the power-creep of the shadow effects and the over-use of the surge keyword.



#11 hildargo

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 12:26 PM

leptokurt said:

 

However, I am a bit worried about the power-creep of the shadow effects and the over-use of the surge keyword.

This is the biggest complaint that I have about Into Ithilien. About every other card in this set has Surge. The first time I played this scenario (dual fisted), I drew 9 cards during my first staging step, and almost threated out. I also was not able to clear Ithilien Road. I built a couple of decks that I felt would try to negate the strengths of quest, which to me are nasty shadow effects and high threat, high attack enemies. I built a Lore/Spirit deck with Beravor, Aragorn and Glorfindel, and a mono-Tactics deck with Hama, Legolas, and Beregond. Some cards that I found critical to being successful in this scenario are Radagast's Cunning, Ithilien Tracker, Ranger Spikes, and Thicket of Spears. With Thicket of Spears and Ranger Spikes, you don't have to worry about any of those pain in the ass shadow effects, as well as enemies attacking you. I also used Legolas with Hands Upon the Bow to great effect as well, eliminating threat and adding progress to the quest.



#12 Nerdmeister

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 08:08 PM

I almost exclusively play the game 2-player with a mate of mine and this is how we experienced it (playing blind first time):

Peril in Pelargir: Tough but fun quest that took a few tries. After we adjusted our tactics in went ok with the decks we had built though

Into Ithillien: I get that many quests you can´t prepare for an unlucky draw that might leave you out in the cold and I´m not bitter when that happens. This quest though we ended up with the feeling that you had to have lucky draws to even have a chance at it. Multiple plays, multiple tweaks and still we get our asses handed to us by Mûmak or treachery cards. 25 losses vs 1 win = no fun happy times (and we´ve been playing lotr since it came out, trying multiple strategies over time. We´re not fresh off the boat with this game)

Defence of Cair Andros: While quite tough this quest is quite doable with the right decks. We decided to make 2 mono-color decks (with songs) to minimize treachery card. One deck was tactics and the other was 2-hero/secrecy lore (for encounter deck manipulation). Only having 2 heroes in lore meant a starting threat for one of the players to be so low that the feint/thicket-of-spears-equipped tactics hero had free hands to take care of the enemies while lore focussed on minimizing the power of the encounter deck.

Overall we enjoyed Peril in Pelargir and Defence of Cair Andros because we were challenged and had to adjust to the circumstance. Loved the theme on both of them. We did not enjoy Into Ithillien due to the simple fact that (from our PoV) it is way too dependent on luck. In our experience about 70% of the games with this is determined, purely by the encounter deck, to have a negative outcome. At least you can usually see it in the first few rounds if it´s a lost cause but that´s hardly any consolation






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