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#1 Traverser

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 06:23 PM

I just got the beginners set today, I really love it, but I'm wondering if anyone knows what Races will be available in the core rule book?



#2 LethalDose

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 07:27 PM

Traverser said:

 

I just got the beginners set today, I really love it, but I'm wondering if anyone knows what Races will be available in the core rule book?

 

 

Yes, the designers.  Beyond them, no, we don't know for sure.

We can tell you the following species were fully stated for player character creation in the beta text:

  • Bothan
  • Gand
  • Droid (Class Four)
  • Human
  • Rodian
  • Trandoshan
  • Twi'lek
  • Wookiee

Further, the following NPCs of the following species were also in the text, but lacked base stats for PC creation:

  • Aqualish
  • Barabel
  • Defel
  • Hutt
  • Sullustan
  • Mon Calamari
  • Gamorrean

Finally, in a discussion of playable species on these forums, I'd be remiss to not mention the "Unofficial species meanagerie", which, as the title states, is a bunch of unofficial fan write-ups of popular Star Wars species.  It can be downloaded here.  The document itself has decent production value, and you can judge the quality of the content for yourself.

-WJL

 


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#3 fishysoldier

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 08:10 PM

Man, I so want to be a gungan…



#4 aramis

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 11:40 PM

fishysoldier said:

Man, I so want to be a gungan…

Uh… why? Are you mad? Punishing your fellow players?

Umm… I'd say something aong the lines of the following..

 Int 1,  rest 2… Airbreathing Amphibious (No water penalties for movement/actions, may hold breath for extended periods, +2Black in dry heat), . Lucky (on a failure, may spend a destiny to allow spending strain to cancel failure results, 1:1), prehensile tongue (2m, treat as brawn 1 for most purposes, no fine manipulation). WT 11+B, ST10+W, 120pts.

But that's just a WAG.



#5 Donovan Morningfire

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 02:23 AM

Traverser said:

I just got the beginners set today, I really love it, but I'm wondering if anyone knows what Races will be available in the core rule book?

Outside of the folks at FFG that worked on it, nobody.  And they aren't talking.

That said, it's a pretty safe bet that the races listed in the Beta (Bothans, 4th Degree Droids, Gands, Humans, Rodians, Trandoshans, Twi'leks, and Wookiees) are going to be included.

Personally, I'd like to see Duros and Zabraks added to that list to bring it up to a round 10, but that's about the extent of it.  I'd also like to see the rules on Droids expanded a bit to included non-4th degree Droids such as astromechs, labor droids, and mechanic droids, but that's probably wishful thinking.

However, if you do have the Beta book and would like a larger variety of species to choose from, Cyril, myself, and a couple other folks put together a pretty extensive list of homebrew species stats that can tide you over until the official versions come out, including a whole bunch that probably won't see official write-ups anytime soon.  Yes, we even have Gungans and Ewoks, as well as Cathars, Togrutas, Snivvians, and Squibs.

You can find the file at the Gaming Security Agency at the following link:

http://gsa.thegamern...-menagerie-2-0/

Even if the species write-up isn't a perfect match to what some folks might have envisioned for a given species, if nothing else it can provide a starting point for your own versions.

If you do find them useful, even if only as a launching point for your own versions, drop a comment at the GSA saying as much.  I'm sure the Editor-in-Chief would be very appreciative of that :)


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#6 mouthymerc

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 03:35 AM

Donovan Morningfire said:

I'd also like to see the rules on Droids expanded a bit to included non-4th degree Droids such as astromechs, labor droids, and mechanic droids, but that's probably wishful thinking.

I'm kind of surprised they didn't just call them droids and be done with it. Some explanation about the five types and let people build their droid. Although maybe it would have taken up too much space with too much customization. Even still, you can really treat them as any type of droid in your role-playing. Of course this leaves room for expanding on them in a future supplement.


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#7 Voice

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 07:45 AM

aramis said:

 

fishysoldier said:

 

Man, I so want to be a gungan…

 

 

Uh… why? Are you mad? Punishing your fellow players?

Umm… I'd say something aong the lines of the following..

 Int 1,  rest 2… Airbreathing Amphibious (No water penalties for movement/actions, may hold breath for extended periods, +2Black in dry heat), . Lucky (on a failure, may spend a destiny to allow spending strain to cancel failure results, 1:1), prehensile tongue (2m, treat as brawn 1 for most purposes, no fine manipulation). WT 11+B, ST10+W, 120pts.

But that's just a WAG.

 

 

 

I've got to say, I'm constantly amazed by people who are so upset about Jar Jar that they completely ignore the other two named Gungan characters *and* all of the unnamed Gungans when doing a species write-up.  If Gungans get the short stick on any characteristic, it's probably either Willpower or Presence, likely with Agiity or Cunning as the corresponding boosted stat.  There's absolutely no evidence that Gungans, on average, are any less intelligent than Humans.  Even Jar Jar doesn't seem especially *stupid*, he's just so used to being an outcast that when he's treated (on the surface) as an equal he's very willing to do what he thinks will please that person.  That's how he gets suckered into calling for the vote of no confidence that ends up putting Palpatine in charge of the Senate.  That's a low willpower score for you, not a low intelligence score.

As for the special abilities, there's (again) no evidence that any Gungans besides Jar Jar have such fickle luck, and the prehensile tongue is probably not worth a species special ability (though a decent write-up could change my mind).

Id be more inclined to give them a bonus rank in Stealth and/or Vigilance.  After all, an entire warrior civilization, right on the back doorstep of Theed, was virtually unheard of by the Humans, so they're *obviously* good at going unnoticed.



#8 LethalDose

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 12:44 PM

Voice said:

I've got to say, I'm constantly amazed by people who are so upset about Jar Jar that they completely ignore the other two named Gungan characters *and* all of the unnamed Gungans when doing a species write-up.  If Gungans get the short stick on any characteristic, it's probably either Willpower or Presence, likely with Agiity or Cunning as the corresponding boosted stat.  There's absolutely no evidence that Gungans, on average, are any less intelligent than Humans.  Even Jar Jar doesn't seem especially *stupid*, he's just so used to being an outcast that when he's treated (on the surface) as an equal he's very willing to do what he thinks will please that person.  That's how he gets suckered into calling for the vote of no confidence that ends up putting Palpatine in charge of the Senate.  That's a low willpower score for you, not a low intelligence score.

Queen Amidala called for a vote of "no confidence" in Chancellor Valorum's ability to run the Galactic Senate that "ends up putting palpatine in power" in TPM.

In AotC, Jar Jar called for a vote to grant Palpatine emergency wartime powers.

Also, nerts to the Gungans.

-WJL


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#9 fishysoldier

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 03:29 PM

aramis said:

fishysoldier said:

 

Man, I so want to be a gungan…

 

 

Uh… why? Are you mad? Punishing your fellow players?

Umm… I'd say something aong the lines of the following..

 Int 1,  rest 2… Airbreathing Amphibious (No water penalties for movement/actions, may hold breath for extended periods, +2Black in dry heat), . Lucky (on a failure, may spend a destiny to allow spending strain to cancel failure results, 1:1), prehensile tongue (2m, treat as brawn 1 for most purposes, no fine manipulation). WT 11+B, ST10+W, 120pts.

But that's just a WAG.

 

I never said I wanted to be Jar Jar.  I do like him as a character but in terms of EotE a gungan is the ideal character.  I mean, we're led to believe that the Emperor has a strong anti-alien stance, right.  So what does this mean for the aliens from his home planet?  What's like life on Naboo for the gungans in the new Empire era?  Pretty rough I should imagine, so you'd likely get away from there as quick as possible.  But you're bound to encounter prejudice from others based on the fact that it was your representative in the senate that gave Palpatine the power to get the galaxy into the mess it's in.  Nice little hooks for a GM to think about.  Plus of course there's some fairly unique character traits and equipment to play with.  You're going to be good with an electropole, maybe you know how to make those little blue energy balls.  You'd be less adept with technologyperhaps (alyhough the bongo is quite sophisticated and capable of travelling through a planet's core), but handy with animals.  I really fancy giving a gungan a go…



#10 Voice

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 04:22 PM

LethalDose said:

Voice said:

 

I've got to say, I'm constantly amazed by people who are so upset about Jar Jar that they completely ignore the other two named Gungan characters *and* all of the unnamed Gungans when doing a species write-up.  If Gungans get the short stick on any characteristic, it's probably either Willpower or Presence, likely with Agiity or Cunning as the corresponding boosted stat.  There's absolutely no evidence that Gungans, on average, are any less intelligent than Humans.  Even Jar Jar doesn't seem especially *stupid*, he's just so used to being an outcast that when he's treated (on the surface) as an equal he's very willing to do what he thinks will please that person.  That's how he gets suckered into calling for the vote of no confidence that ends up putting Palpatine in charge of the Senate.  That's a low willpower score for you, not a low intelligence score.

 

 

Queen Amidala called for a vote of "no confidence" in Chancellor Valorum's ability to run the Galactic Senate that "ends up putting palpatine in power" in TPM.

In AotC, Jar Jar called for a vote to grant Palpatine emergency wartime powers.

Also, nerts to the Gungans.

-WJL

Ack!  You're right.  I got those two mixed up.  The point stands, though.



#11 aramis

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 05:42 PM

Voice said:

 

Id be more inclined to give them a bonus rank in Stealth and/or Vigilance.  After all, an entire warrior civilization, right on the back doorstep of Theed, was virtually unheard of by the Humans, so they're *obviously* good at going unnoticed.

 

Living underwater tends to hide them more than enough - they aren't shown as particularly good at hiding. They have also been painted with a broad brush as not the sharpest tools in the shed in several sources. As for the luck, I'm basing it on the battle sequences more than just Jar Jar, as the whole battle scene between gungans and the TF is shot for comedy value. Plus, the Naboonian Humans are their buffer for the rest of the Empire… they're sheltered by well meaning humans.

The prehensile, 1m+ long, fairly strong tongue (strong enough to wield a melee weapon or open a door) is quite the advantage. And I figured it being worth maybe 10 points… so instead of the typical 100, giving them 20 extra XP and only one weak stat, the stat used for education, mechanics, and general knowledge base - areas they are shown as a species to be lacking in, but not cripled in, means they can be MORE flexible than, say, the bothans. It's not like they have a species ability that makes it more expensive to learn those skills… 

They use manual labor and mine an energy goo from the ocean floor, which they've learned how to work with while still having a general tech level of steampunk or less… That also speaks to lucky but not bright. 



#12 Donovan Morningfire

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 02:03 AM

mouthymerc said:

Donovan Morningfire said:

I'd also like to see the rules on Droids expanded a bit to included non-4th degree Droids such as astromechs, labor droids, and mechanic droids, but that's probably wishful thinking.

I'm kind of surprised they didn't just call them droids and be done with it. Some explanation about the five types and let people build their droid. Although maybe it would have taken up too much space with too much customization. Even still, you can really treat them as any type of droid in your role-playing. Of course this leaves room for expanding on them in a future supplement.

Well, for purposes of the Beta, I could see FFG keeping things fairly tight, particularly given how much tweaking Droids got during the course of the updates in terms of their 'species' abilitles.

Oddly enough, I had a player in the game I ran on Saturday (used the Beginner Box with PCs made via the Beta rules) that wanted to play an Astromech, and the Droid traits as per the Final Week Update were incredibly easy to tweak to accomodate the player, who willingly choose to abide by the "can't cause deliberate harm to meatbags" rule that non 4th-degree droids are stuck with.  Making him Silhouette 0 didn't break anything either, so I think FFG wouldn't have to do much work to expand "Droids as PCs" beyond 4th degree droids.


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#13 Lord of Malice

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 05:53 AM

As to the Gungans discussion, I think Willpower being the bad state makes far more sense then having low intellect. The gungans have some pretty smancy tech and none of them see to have subhuman intelligence. But they most certainly suck at willpower, the Bosses basically get the jedi mind trick shabam from Qui-Gon (he would have to use the trick on everyone in that room or they would notice the head guy getting tricked). I do not even think Jar Jar acts like he is unintelligent most of his stupid action comes from a) cowardice (willpower) b) short-sightedness (trying to eat the frog thing at the stand on Tatooine because he is super hungry and can't wait)

I think gungans could actually be a good species for characters if you do not think of Jar Jar as the most typical member of his species (he is an exile, huge spaz, and just the unluckiest (lucky?) being in the galaxy). More gregarious then stupid really. 



#14 Lord Dynel

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 12:22 PM

I like DM's suggestion of duros and zabrak.   Personally, I can't picture an outer rim campaign without jawas and gamorreans.  I am not quite sure if they would translate well to player races, but I would like to see them nonetheless.



#15 Voice

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 03:26 PM

Lord of Malice said:

As to the Gungans discussion, I think Willpower being the bad state makes far more sense then having low intellect. The gungans have some pretty smancy tech and none of them see to have subhuman intelligence. But they most certainly suck at willpower, the Bosses basically get the jedi mind trick shabam from Qui-Gon (he would have to use the trick on everyone in that room or they would notice the head guy getting tricked). I do not even think Jar Jar acts like he is unintelligent most of his stupid action comes from a) cowardice (willpower) b) short-sightedness (trying to eat the frog thing at the stand on Tatooine because he is super hungry and can't wait)

I think gungans could actually be a good species for characters if you do not think of Jar Jar as the most typical member of his species (he is an exile, huge spaz, and just the unluckiest (lucky?) being in the galaxy). More gregarious then stupid really. 

Agreed.  Gungans have, among other things, Star Wars 'modern' water vehicles, and force field generators capable of withstanding a long term barrage from tanks.  That doesn't speak toward low-tech or low intelllect.  The gungans were holding their own against a large battle droid army (despite Jar Jar's presence and command role).  Remember, they were a diversionary force, intended to draw the Separatist forces away from Theed to make it easier for the heroes to free the captured pilots, and do the rest of their thing.  They were set retreat once their shield generators were destroyed (from inside the shield dome), in part because it would be viewed as a route, and the droid army would likely be ordered to pursue, thereby drawing them even *further* away from the city where the *real* attack was taking place.

Another point against the 'low intellect' gungan theory is the simple fact that Commander Tarpals *knows* that putting Jar Jar in charge was a bad (and obviously politically motivated) idea.  Boss Nass is obviously trying to curry favor with Amidala, by showing an inordinate amount of respect for one of her friends by granting him the rank and position.  (Of course, he may also be hoping Jar Jar gets himself killed in the battle, but if that happened, it would *obviously* be no fault of his.)



#16 Voice

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 03:36 PM

aramis said:

Voice said:

 

 

Id be more inclined to give them a bonus rank in Stealth and/or Vigilance.  After all, an entire warrior civilization, right on the back doorstep of Theed, was virtually unheard of by the Humans, so they're *obviously* good at going unnoticed.

 

 

 

Living underwater tends to hide them more than enough - they aren't shown as particularly good at hiding. They have also been painted with a broad brush as not the sharpest tools in the shed in several sources. As for the luck, I'm basing it on the battle sequences more than just Jar Jar, as the whole battle scene between gungans and the TF is shot for comedy value. Plus, the Naboonian Humans are their buffer for the rest of the Empire… they're sheltered by well meaning humans.

The prehensile, 1m+ long, fairly strong tongue (strong enough to wield a melee weapon or open a door) is quite the advantage. And I figured it being worth maybe 10 points… so instead of the typical 100, giving them 20 extra XP and only one weak stat, the stat used for education, mechanics, and general knowledge base - areas they are shown as a species to be lacking in, but not cripled in, means they can be MORE flexible than, say, the bothans. It's not like they have a species ability that makes it more expensive to learn those skills… 

They use manual labor and mine an energy goo from the ocean floor, which they've learned how to work with while still having a general tech level of steampunk or less… That also speaks to lucky but not bright. 

The idea that living underwater less than a day's travel from Naboo's capital city is sufficient to hide them is about on par with the idea that living in the ocean is sufficient to keep us from knowing about the existence of coral reefs.  Apparently nobody on Naboo has ever gone scuba diving (despite an aquabreather apparently being standard equipment for a Jedi).  To top it off, the humans of Naboo, including the prodigy Queen Amidala, don't even seem to know that the gungans are a proud warrior people until Jar Jar mentions it.

As for the tongue, I don't see it being any more strong or prehensile than a frog or chameleon's tongue.  A gungan might be able to tag a button with it, but I certainly don't see them being able to meaningfully wield a weapon with it, and there's nothing to suggest that capability anywhere I've seen.

And the tech level argument seems to stem from actively ignoring the tech we see them use.  Submarines with forcefield windows, shield generators capable of withstanding long term bombardment from tanks, etc.  They may not traditionally use blasters, but likely stems a cultural preference, much like how Wookies are associated with Bowcasters, despite being more 'old fashioned' than blasters.



#17 Donovan Morningfire

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 12:43 AM

Lord Dynel said:

I like DM's suggestion of duros and zabrak.   Personally, I can't picture an outer rim campaign without jawas and gamorreans.  I am not quite sure if they would translate well to player races, but I would like to see them nonetheless.

Actually, I think Gamorreans and Jawas could very easily translate to playable races.  See the GSA link I posted earlier in this thread, as Cyril and I came up with pretty workable stats for both species, so I'm sure that FFG could do likewise.

Of course, that's not to say that they'll be popular with players as a species option, given their traditional inability to speak Basic (something that we delibrately glossed over in our write-ups).


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#18 Lord Dynel

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 06:26 AM

Donovan Morningfire said:

Lord Dynel said:

 

I like DM's suggestion of duros and zabrak.   Personally, I can't picture an outer rim campaign without jawas and gamorreans.  I am not quite sure if they would translate well to player races, but I would like to see them nonetheless.

 

 

Actually, I think Gamorreans and Jawas could very easily translate to playable races.  See the GSA link I posted earlier in this thread, as Cyril and I came up with pretty workable stats for both species, so I'm sure that FFG could do likewise.

Of course, that's not to say that they'll be popular with players as a species option, given their traditional inability to speak Basic (something that we delibrately glossed over in our write-ups).

 

Thanks.  I'll have to give that a look.  

Something I've thought about, and discussed at our table just last weekend, was language barriers and its lack (so far) in EotE.  We thought back to Episodes IV, V, and IV and couldn't think of a time when language was a barrier at all.  I'm sure this has been brought up many time in the past, but it's something we rationalized as to why there doesn't seem to be an issue with it's absence.  In the movies, when there were beings on screen that didn't understand each other, there was always a way they could communicate effectively.  Whether it was Han and Chewie (they understand each other's languages, but couldn't speak the other) or Jabba and Luke (Jabba, who needed a translator most of the time, and C-3PO the interpreter), communication always flowed without incident.  

I don't know it they'll be anything in the Core book about languages but if there isn't, I won't be disappointed.  avergonzado_alegre



#19 Donovan Morningfire

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 10:19 AM

Lord Dynel said:

Thanks.  I'll have to give that a look.  

Something I've thought about, and discussed at our table just last weekend, was language barriers and its lack (so far) in EotE.  We thought back to Episodes IV, V, and IV and couldn't think of a time when language was a barrier at all.  I'm sure this has been brought up many time in the past, but it's something we rationalized as to why there doesn't seem to be an issue with it's absence.  In the movies, when there were beings on screen that didn't understand each other, there was always a way they could communicate effectively.  Whether it was Han and Chewie (they understand each other's languages, but couldn't speak the other) or Jabba and Luke (Jabba, who needed a translator most of the time, and C-3PO the interpreter), communication always flowed without incident.  

I don't know it they'll be anything in the Core book about languages but if there isn't, I won't be disappointed.  avergonzado_alegre

You've got a good point, in that for the most part, the language barrier was glossed over in the films, and that it's really only been in the EU that the notion of not being able to understand another organic (only 3PO really seems to understand what R2 is saying, with Luke and Anakin only seeming to get the jist of what the little astromech is bleeping on about).  Like you said, there's often someone there who can at least give the audience a rough idea of what's being said (Han responding to Chewie's remarks throughout the films, Lando & Nien Nunb) or we get a translation via subtitles (as with Jabba).

I would think that if FFG does decide to adopt a "only know some many languages" approach, they'd make it similar to how WEG handled it, either co-opting an existing Knowledge skill (Xenology and Education are my picks, in that order) or at worse have a separate Language skill, and that rather than having to pick specific languages (like you had to in the various d20 versions) the player simply just has to roll their linguistic skill (whatever name it goes by) when the GM feels it's necessary.  Which is probably going to be the tricky part, determining when it's necessary.  My main criteria for necessity, if such rules were to be put in place, would be "is it relevant to the plot that the PCs have rough time understanding a given alien species?"

But like you,if there's nothing about only being speak certain languages, I won't be disappointed either.


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#20 $hamrock

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 04:52 PM

The only time I make language come up, as a barrier, is when the PC's bump into a "new" species, or some species that is extremely rare. Other then that I consider it a mute point, as the given species are so common, one would assume they would know how to communicate effectively.

I thought I read somewhere that Jabba understood basic fine, he just refused to demote himself to speaking it.






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