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Another Mace Tyrell question…


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#1 Joeyk1985

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 01:59 PM

If Mace attacks and destroys the only FM on an area with a defend order, does this cancel the defend order since no orders should be assigned to areas with no units ? Or does the defender still benefit from the +1/+2 defend bonus ?!?

I'm searching for this question specifically but found no reference…



#2 dypaca

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 03:21 PM

According to the official responses thread on bgg, the defender does get the defense order bonus: http://www.boardgame...ponses-from-ffg.  The order will be discarded after the battle though, regardless of who wins.



#3 Sprawl

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 04:22 PM

It doesn't say anything about removing order/ending fight early. So it seems the only thing that would happens is that if the opposing player would win, he couldn't take possesion of your territory since he wouldn't have any units left.



#4 Joeyk1985

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 12:31 AM

Sprawl said:

It doesn't say anything about removing order/ending fight early. So it seems the only thing that would happens is that if the opposing player would win, he couldn't take possesion of your territory since he wouldn't have any units left.

 

my question was if the defender had only 1 unit and faces Mace Tyrell…



#5 Heineken.-

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 04:39 AM

The combat still continues, the last FT stop of adding +1 Combat Strenght, but the order still ADDING as the House Card too, why ? , because as i know the Orders Can't be assigned to an area without Units but once it is assigned it should'nt be removed, but obiously if that area is attacked again, no combat will starts, and the order will be inmeadiatly removed 



#6 jhagen

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 11:03 AM

combat ends as the territory is empty and you can't support an empty region.

 

the FFG FAQ added a new "rule" indirectly by being revisionist in a passive-aggressive way by mentioning repeatedly in the FAQ that territories with no units can't have order tokens in it.

They created the "rule" to directly combat the connundrum caused with tyrell and martell cards specifically the "3" and "1" cards respectively, because it caused a situation where an order token is placed into an empty territory.

The FAQ states that no token can remain in an empty territory.

"Official" on BBG or not, this is a direct contradiction of 2 applications of an order token on an empty region.

You have to come to an agreement to what the SPIRIT OF THE LAW is and resolve conflicts with the LETTER OF THE LAW.

 



#7 jhagen

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 11:12 AM

I HAVE HIGHLIGHTED THE CONTRADICTION IN BOLD off BGG:

Arianne Martell House Card vs Loras Tyrell House Card
If Loras wins against Arianne, Can the march order be moved into the space without any units. Normally this would not matter, but if another march order was in range, all units could move into the space with the moved march order [to then resolve it later].

"An order token cannot exist in an area without a unit, even if it has a power token there. So in the case you provided, that order token is removed without effect."


Mace Tyrell House Card
If Mace is used in a combat against an opponent that only has a single footman on the field, does the battle end immediately because one side has no units remaining.

"No. A combat is still continued as normal, the only difference being that the opponent would have a contributing combat strength of 0 for his units. Supporting units still apply, however, as do House cards, Defense orders, etc."

If Mace Tyrell's ability destroys the only footman unit in an area and that area contains defense order, does this order still provide its combat bonus even whilst Order Tokens can't exist in regions without units? What if it is combat for Home Region with garrison?

"Even if Mace destroys the final remaining unit in an area, the combat still takes place, including all other sources of combat strength (defense orders, support, garrison, etc). The only difference is that the defending player will be receiving 0 combat strength from his defending units (because he wouldn't have any)."

Imagine if I had a march order or consolidate power token in an area with a single footman. I'm attacked and Mace Tyrell takes out my footman, but I still manage to win the battle. Does the march order or consolidate power token remain and I can potentially activate them later (if I move troops into the area)?

"An order token cannot exist in an area without a unit, even if it has a power token there. So in the case you provided, that order token is removed without effect."
 

So here we have two replies to questions asked conflicting with each other.

Question is:

Does the defense token of a footman remain that is killed by the card.

One "rule" says its immediately removed.

One says the defense bonus remains in effect.

 

I have posted addendums to the FAQ regarding this and other questions already



#8 DarkLoic

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 01:30 AM

I see no contradiction, here.

IMO, you make a mistake by confusing two different situation : Combat resolution vs Orders use and resolution.

Concerning orders, the rule is clear and simple : You can not put/activate an order on an area without a unit.

Concerning combat resolution : As far as orders are concerned, it means that at least one unit was engaged and so order can be activate. Even if this unit is destroyed before the end of that fight, activate orders still apply.

In other words, if you have an aera with only 1 footman unit and a Defense order, attacked, you activate your Defense order and combat occurs.

If your footman unit is destroyed, you still benefit from your Defense order, until combat is over.

Then, whatever the outcome of the battle, you have no more unit left on this aera and, so, the Defense order must be removed.



#9 dypaca

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 03:31 PM

Well the reason I quoted my source here was that I consider the direct responses people quote in forums a step below officially published responses, so take them with a grain of salt.  Particularly before the FAQ was released contradictary responses were posted there, and even recently I think some have been overturned by new responses.

For what its worth though, until the retreat step the defense order will not be in an area without units.  In this case it just lost the only friendly unit in the area.



#10 LordZhouYu

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 07:02 AM

Well heres my question then.

Can you put a consolidate power token in an area you control that only has a Power Token there? Or does it have to have a unit there even to place a consoldiate power, defense, or raid order?? Sorry I am new to the game. Our group has only played twice so far. I dont recall seeing anywhere in the rule book that you had to have a unit in the area to place raid or consolidate power orders. I am even under the impression that if i wanted to put some defense into an area that only has a power token I would be able to do that too? But that sounds like it may be incorrect based off what Im reading here. 



#11 dypaca

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 03:20 PM

No, you can only place an order in an area with a unit.  This is spelled out at the start of the Assign Orders step on page 12.






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