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Rough Riders


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#1 Kasaidan

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 05:32 AM

Unfortunately the Rulebook lacks rules for these.

My first impulse would be to make Rough Riders a Special Equipment Option, swapping what ever means of Transportation the Regiment has for Horses, swapping the Lasgun for Hunter Lances and adding the Wrangling skill from Dark Heresy to the package.

 

My second impulse would be making rough riders, would be to make them a Regiment Type based on Mechanised Infantry Regiments, swapping the M36 and the two krak grenades for a hunter lance and a laspistol with two clips. The Chimera would also be substituted for either the Bikes from the Gamemasterscreen adventure or an Horse like Mount. Abilitie wise, swapping the Skill and Talent for the Wrangling Skill/ Operate Surface from Dark Heresy and the Talent for a "Rough Rider" talent negating the usual penaltys for mounted combat.



#2 AtoMaki

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 07:09 AM

The follwoing Only War expanison, The Hammer of the Emperor will include rough riders. Though, I must confess, I have no idea about how they will do it. Wrangling isn't really a good Skill to represent riding skills (it is Perception based… so I can ride a horse better with keen eyes :D) and Operate (Surface) is just weird (you don't "operate" a horse). Maybe a new Skill? But just for riding? Wouldn't it be a little bit surplus?



#3 Kasaidan

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 12:00 AM

Operate Surface would be for Bike mounted units…

#4 AtoMaki

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 09:56 PM

Kasaidan said:

Operate Surface would be for Bike mounted units…

 

But this still doesn't answer the problem of the lack of a proper Riding Skill. 



#5 Routa-maa

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 11:24 PM

AtoMaki said:

 

The follwoing Only War expanison, The Hammer of the Emperor will include rough riders. Though, I must confess, I have no idea about how they will do it. Wrangling isn't really a good Skill to represent riding skills (it is Perception based… so I can ride a horse better with keen eyes :D) and Operate (Surface) is just weird (you don't "operate" a horse). Maybe a new Skill? But just for riding? Wouldn't it be a little bit surplus?

 

 

OW p.114 sidenote upper right corner, Using Alternative Characteristic. "GM might wish to substitute an alternate characteristic which better suits the situation" Just like it's said in Operate Voidship p.129 little sidenote that "Piloting such ships is less about agility and reflexes, and more about the Intelligenceto make correct decisions and select proper manouvres." So no Operate Voidship (Agility) but (Intelligence)

I would propably use Survival (Special use Wrangling) Skill with Perception to taim and train beasts, and with Agility to ride said beasts.


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#6 AtoMaki

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 11:51 PM

Routa-maa said:

OW p.114 sidenote upper right corner, Using Alternative Characteristic. "GM might wish to substitute an alternate characteristic which better suits the situation" Just like it's said in Operate Voidship p.129 little sidenote that "Piloting such ships is less about agility and reflexes, and more about the Intelligenceto make correct decisions and select proper manouvres." So no Operate Voidship (Agility) but (Intelligence)

I would propably use Survival (Special use Wrangling) Skill with Perception to taim and train beasts, and with Agility to ride said beasts.

 

I know this, but Operate (Voidships) is a whole different Specialization. And using Survival for Riding? I can live off in a jungle so I can ride a horse too :D?  And I'm not even sure if it should use Agility. You don't controll your mount directly, so your own agility should make little difference (like, horses work differently than cars if you know what I mean ;) ) . 



#7 TorogTarkdacil812

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 03:45 AM

I am wondering if some of the amalgated skills (above mentioned wrangling for survival, but also demolitions for tech-use and whole bunch for athletics) couldnt be brought back as some sort of new talent, or skill specialities as in new World of Darkness games, or IIRC there was something similiar with mastered skills in Ascension. You know, character would buy talent Skill Speciality (Wrangling), and get +10 on all Survival test involving this activity.

Also using different atribute for skills test is fully in the sphere of GM, but could be formalised by characteristic substituting Talents, such as Rite of Ignition (Strenght instead of Int for Tech-Use) or that techpriesty one changing Fellowship to Int for Decieve test (both from Dark Heresy).


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#8 Plushy

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 05:46 PM

TorogTarkdacil812 said:

I am wondering if some of the amalgated skills (above mentioned wrangling for survival, but also demolitions for tech-use and whole bunch for athletics) couldnt be brought back as some sort of new talent, or skill specialities as in new World of Darkness games, or IIRC there was something similiar with mastered skills in Ascension. You know, character would buy talent Skill Speciality (Wrangling), and get +10 on all Survival test involving this activity.

Also using different atribute for skills test is fully in the sphere of GM, but could be formalised by characteristic substituting Talents, such as Rite of Ignition (Strenght instead of Int for Tech-Use) or that techpriesty one changing Fellowship to Int for Decieve test (both from Dark Heresy).

I'm all for the consolidated skills that BC/OW brought in, but can't help but miss things like Wrangling and Demolitions. if all else fails, just add them back in as full skills or as an nWoD-style 'specialty.'

I'm also all for Rite of Ignition coming back. That's just brilliant.


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#9 Kasatka

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 11:54 PM

I like the idea of speciality Talents unlocking extra uses for existing skills, rather than saying the skills already cover new uses (it makese them far too universally useful and essentially unbalances the XP value between skills).

Example:

Mounted Warrior
Tier 1

Agility/Fieldcraft

Effect: Required to make effective use of living mounts in military applications, Mounted Warrior allows you to control your mount, as a Half Action, with an Agility test, modified by your mount's Handling modifier. Without this talent all test to control a mount are at a further -20 for being untrained.

 

Born In The Saddle

Tier 2

Agility/Fieldcraft

Requires: Mounted Warrior, 40 Agility

Effect: Years of experience at handling your mount mean you can now control it with a Free Action. Furthermore you recieve a +10 bonus to its handling modifier.

 

Mounted King

Tier 3

Agility/Fieldcraft

Requires: Born In The Saddle, 50 Agility

Effect: Your skill at handling mounts is legendary. Your mounts increase their Strength, Toughness and Agility by 5pts each. Your mounts now ignore the effects of Fear, so strong is your will over them. You may also issue your mount verbal commands while not mounted, such as calling it towards you or getting it to wait somewhere, without need for a roll.

 

Just examples off the top of my head. This way you don't need to modify existing skills, just slot in some extra talents and the mounts profiles should come with all the handling modifiers and stats needed to run them.


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#10 Flail-Bot

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 08:23 AM

Give 'em 2 hunting lances at least, since they're single use. Toss in a sword. Stick with the las pistol, seems good. Specialist gear can cover the rest. Throw in horses or bikes as standard equipment as well. I'd make it a replacement for drop troops. Give them Survival (horse ridin') or the talent as described above, instead of Operate (Aeronautica).

Now, the Rough Riders are going to be a little limited in which battlefields they can reasonably participate in, but I'm sure you can work with that.



#11 Plushy

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 11:52 AM

Hmm. Laspistols and 2 Hunting Lances sounds right. Operate (Surface) is a must. There are Combat Bikes in one of the Deathwatch books; those'll do until we get actual rules.

I'm pretty sure there's rules for bikes in that old Dark Heresy web supplement about vehicles as well. Come to think of it, I'm pretty sure I converted those…

EDIT: A-ha! I found them!

 

           

Combat Bike

 

Type: Wheeled Vehicle

Tactical Speed: 100m

Cruising Speed: 50 km/h

Maneouvrability: +20

Structural Integrity: 15

Armor: Front 15/Sides 15/Back 11

Size: Hulking

Vehicle Traits: Bike, Rugged

Crew: 1 Driver, 1 Passenger

Weapons: Two front-facing Fixed Basic weapons


My apologies to anyone I offend; FFG staff, playtesters, and forum users alike. 

 

Please check out my Dark Heresy to Only War conversion! You can find it on the main Only War forum. I'm always looking for more people to playtest it!


#12 Kasatka

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 03:30 AM

Plushy said:

Hmm. Laspistols and 2 Hunting Lances sounds right. Operate (Surface) is a must. There are Combat Bikes in one of the Deathwatch books; those'll do until we get actual rules.

I'm pretty sure there's rules for bikes in that old Dark Heresy web supplement about vehicles as well. Come to think of it, I'm pretty sure I converted those…

EDIT: A-ha! I found them!

 

           

Combat Bike

 

Type: Wheeled Vehicle

Tactical Speed: 100m

Cruising Speed: 50 km/h

Maneouvrability: +20

Structural Integrity: 15

Armor: Front 15/Sides 15/Back 11

Size: Hulking

Vehicle Traits: Bike, Rugged

Crew: 1 Driver, 1 Passenger

Weapons: Two front-facing Fixed Basic weapons

There's also rules for Virbian combat bikes, which are an old STC combat bike as found in the GM screens accompanying adventure booklet. I highly recommend it as an intro-adventure and for the suggestions on how to handle promotions (and the bike stats! :D )


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Only those that prosper may truly judge what is sane.


#13 Alekzanter

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 08:22 AM

From 'Dark Heresy: Apocrypha' (produced by Black Industries); paraphrased:

Mounts- The most basic of "vehicles" is an animal used for riding. While riding on a steed the PC sustitutes his/her Movement for that of the steed. A steed may carry a rider for 8 hours, plus a number of hours equal to its TB; if this duration is exceeded the steed must take a Challenging (+/0) Toughness Test, with failure indicating the animal suffers from Fatigue. Should the steed fail a second Toughness Test the animal collapses from exhaustion. Such overuse of a steed (or cruel treatment) may (at the GM's ruling) injure the animal. Note: I'm paraphrasing, and the preceeding assumes the SB and TB of a mount is high enough to allow it to carry a rider (and any gear). If not, "fudge" something (only if needed, perhaps double the animals SB only for the purposes of Lifting, Carrying, Pulling/Pushing limits). Unnatural Strength (x2) would not be an appropriate "fudge".

Untrained Mounts- On the first Turn of combat, a rider must pass a Difficult (-10) Wrangling Test to control the animal, if this Test is failed the animal/steed/mount flees from the combat at its fastest rate of Movement. This Test is taken each Round until the animal has been brought under control by its rider, and this control lasts for 1 Round plus 1 Round per DoS on the Wrangling Test. At the end of this time the rider must Test again to maintain control of the mount/steed. These Wrangling Tests are Full Actions. Riding an untrained mount into combat confers no "mounted combat" benefits, and the rider/steed suffer a -20 to all Dodge Tests.

Trained Mounts- While fighting from the back of a steed trained for war (specifically, so I'm assuming any Rough Rider mount fits this category), the rider gains the following benefits: +10 WS (High Ground modifier? perhaps negated if fighting a mounted opponent?); use the steed's Movement values rather than your own; may employ the Trample Combat Action; may use a Lance (or similar weapon, such as a boar spear). The rider/steed suffer a -20 to all Dodge Tests. When hit in combat (or striking an enemy in combat) use the following Mounted Hit Locations (assuming the rider is mounted on a Quadruped):

01 Rider Head
02-03 Rider Right Arm
04-05 Rider Left Arm
06-15 Rider Body
16-20 Rider Right Leg
21-25 Rider Left Leg
26-30 Steed Head
31-60 Steed Body
61-70 Steed Right Front Leg
71-80 Steed Left Leg
81-90 Steed Right Rear Leg
91-100 Steed Left Rear Leg

Obviously, if the rider is mounted on a Loxatl (jk) the GM will have to make some adjustments…

New Combat Action: Trample (Full Action)- You direct your steed to run down and trample your opponent (duh). Your opponent may Dodge (if able, aware), and if the Dodge is failed your opponent takes Damage equal to the steed's Natural Attack (it says a horse's Damage is d10+1 [Impact], Primitive; I'd go with max 8 on the d10 just because the horse is so big, it's moving at speed, etc; it also seems to not be following published adventure standards of adding SB to Damage, so…looks like d10+6 [Impact], Primitive [8?]). Perhaps the steed must move a minimum of its Charge Move (18)? In any case, Mono horse shoes ftw.

Horse- Movement: 6/12/18/36, Bestial, Hulking, Quadruped, Sturdy
Skills- Awareness (Per)
Armour (natural)- none

WS 25
BS n/a
S 50
T 40
Ag 30
Int 13
Per 13
WP 10
Fel n/a

Slain Mounts- It dies (or is killed) and you…

01-20 Narrow Escape- You manage to roll from underneath the steed just in time. Rider is Prone and must take a Stand Action to regain his/her feet.
21-50 Thrown- In your steed's death throes you are thrown, flinging you d5 meters in a random direction; take d10+1 Impact (Falling) Damage (meaning it's reduced by TB but not Armour) to a random Location.
51-90 Partially Trapped- One of your legs becomes trapped under your steed; rider takes d10+4 (steed's TB) Impact Damage to random leg (left or right), rider may not move or use any Reactions until freed (Challenging Strength Test, Full Action).
91-100 Completely Trapped- Your steed falls completely on top of you, crushing you beneath its bulk; take d10+5 (steed's SB) Impact Damage in the first Round the rider is completely trapped, +10+2 in each additional Round until freed (I would say rigid Armours like Feudal Plate and Carapace might protect vs. this Damage, but Leathers, Hides, and other pliable Armours not so much…). To free oneself, the rider (or those coming to his aid) must succeed on a Hard (-20) Strength Test. The rider may benefit from cover while completely trapped, but may not move and cannot use any Reactions (that Uruk Hai is gonna bash your noggin, Gimli!).

Perhaps this will help until an "official" ruling is published.

 

 

 

 



#14 Flail-Bot

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 09:07 AM

Plushy said:

Combat Bike

Type: Wheeled Vehicle

Tactical Speed: 100m

Cruising Speed: 50 km/h

Maneouvrability: +20

Structural Integrity: 15

 

100m Tactical Speed!?

The Leman Russ has:

TS: 12m

CS: 35 kph

 

Seems slightly unreasonable to move 100m as a half action.






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