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Guestions about few rules


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#1 Mekolomus

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 12:44 AM

Have few guestions about OW - been playing 40k + ffg rpg few years and OW very very cool


Kraks and Krak Missiles have Concussive - cool.

Does the armour of tank protec completely from that or should a hit from grenade or missile cause stun even it does not cause damage?

And if it causes to stun, who are affected? If missile hits to hull is driver, passengers, gunner+commander all affected?

Who have you played this?


.
If grenade is thrown, do you deal damege via arch where it was thrown? cos thrown from the front arch krak wont do anything.  Or do u deal damage at weakest value (grenade thrown under tank etc etc) could grenades be thrown even you are standin at the tanks fron arch to tank back armour.


Commisar is shooting with h.stubber from top of chime. I personally find that he can be shot at - via called shot ?
How about shooting from the top hatch of chimera - same ?

Thank you from your help - I wait aswer specially from other GM:s




 



#2 whoseyes

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 02:01 AM

Although I don't like the rules for throwing grenades (too vague, I think), I have solved some of the issues you talk about with called shots and size modificators.

For example, if you want to throw a grenade under a tank (to apply rear AP), I would rule that it's a -20 BS because it's a called shot.

If you want to throw a grenade into an open hatch from the tank would be at -30 BS because of the smaller size of the oberture. Maybe even -40 if you are not throwing the grenade from an upper level (if you can't properly see the opened hatch).

 

I like what you say about Concussive krak grenades and its effects on tanks. I had not think about that, but I guess its reasonable. Maybe an attack like this would affect the entire crew with a +10 modifier to their T test for every 10 points of AP the tank has… or something like that.

 

And to shot a soldier that's using the weapons on the hull of a tank its not a called shot in my game. You simply declare that you are attacking the guy on the tank, not the tank itself. Of course, if when determining the area of impact the dice say that the shot goes to the enemy legs, I would rule that the shot hills the hull of the tank instead.



#3 Hordeoverseer

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 03:10 AM

Semi-related question to throw here instead of starting a new thread, is it possible to dodge grenades? I don't know if waist high cover would do the trick even with it around you…



#4 whoseyes

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 04:29 AM

Hordeoverseer said:

Semi-related question to throw here instead of starting a new thread, is it possible to dodge grenades? I don't know if waist high cover would do the trick even with it around you…

 

In a game I encountered a similar situation, with an enemy trying to dodge a frag missile. I houseruled that it is possible but you have to throw yourself to the ground or behind a piece of cover (being prone on the floor, doesn't matter if you pass the dodge test or not). I think that characters should be able to foresee that a grenade is going to be thrown to their feet and run away from there. 

Maybe to dodge a battlecanon round would be too much, wouldn't it?



#5 Face Eater

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 06:02 AM

whoseyes said:

Hordeoverseer said:

 

Semi-related question to throw here instead of starting a new thread, is it possible to dodge grenades? I don't know if waist high cover would do the trick even with it around you…

 

 

 

In a game I encountered a similar situation, with an enemy trying to dodge a frag missile. I houseruled that it is possible but you have to throw yourself to the ground or behind a piece of cover (being prone on the floor, doesn't matter if you pass the dodge test or not). I think that characters should be able to foresee that a grenade is going to be thrown to their feet and run away from there. 

Maybe to dodge a battlecanon round would be too much, wouldn't it?

See page 244, you can dodge out of areas of effect if the distance to the edge is less that your agility bonus in meters.A dead on battlecannon is too far to dodge, but if you are closed enough to the edge you might.

Being able to dodge behind something sounds like a fair enough house rule but it would just act as cover from the damage and for a battle-cannon that might not be enough.



#6 DrNo172000

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 07:19 AM

Mekolomus said:


Kraks and Krak Missiles have Concussive - cool.

Does the armour of tank protec completely from that or should a hit from grenade or missile cause stun even it does not cause damage?

And if it causes to stun, who are affected? If missile hits to hull is driver, passengers, gunner+commander all affected?

 

If the person is in the tank then realistically they will not be effected by concussive.  This is because concussion injuries are caused by the over pressurization wave (blast wave) of a high explosive.  Since that wave doesn't go through solid objects than the people inside would never be hit by it.  Exposed indivduals such as someone in the commanders turret or manning a pintle mounted gun (one of the reasons why today's vehicles have remote controlled pintle mounted guns) would be hit and should probably test.

On a side note you could also house rule that if a concussive weapon is used in a confined space, you could make a penalty to the test since over pressure is made much worse when confined to small spaces.  For example you shoot a missle through a window and it detonates inside the building.



#7 Kiton

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 07:21 AM

Really light vehicles that can be damaged by a Krak missile should probably get a stunned pilot, but by RAW as far as I can tell a vehicle has no toughness to test. They don't get knocked prone like that unless you're actually rolling up vehicular criticals [through RF most likely].

Given vehicles all have plenty of armor, and don't have toughness, we can count penetration in the 'total damage' dealt before armor for simplicity.

3d10+8X Pen 8 gives a range of 19-46: If dealing with a Leman Russ, never fire at the front armor unless you've a large stock of missiles, its cannon is disabled, and you've got an hour to waste trying to take it down. On average you'll barely scratch the side armors at best, but average shots will take down a Russ in 5 hits, though you could potentially chew through 52 of 55 integrity in two max-damage hits [the RFs that come with that will help as well, then]. Try to avoid the sides on the demolisher; armor's a little higher there.

Since this gives the tank plenty of time to sponson+battlecannon the crap out of you and whoever is nearby, You should stick to aiming Kraks at sentinels, basilisks and chimeras or their equivalents, and of course the bikes being ridden towards you at high speed.

 

Crew is only open to being attacked though certain critical effects, OR if the vehicle is open-topped to begin with. In that case, a Krak won't do it, however, without actually targeting the driver or a passenger: it has no blast radius [not even a little. no, I don't know why its 0].

 

Grenades should do damage where they exploded: If you can land your grenade on the other side of a tank, it makes no sense that it would inflict its hit on the front armor instead, unless of course you were in the back and it scattered, bouncing off the top and rolling down the other side.

 

By the rules the character on the pintle-mount is being protected. IF its the kind you actually have to get out and manually fire [almost only on open-topped vehicles like the sidecars of a bike anyways; a sealed vehicle will just have it controlled electronically] he should probably be considered partly exposed, though pintle-weapons tend to have at least some protective plating in between whomever is being shot at and the gunner. I would allow called shots, but would have to stress that unless you're firing at the gunner's back or with indirect fire, he's got perhaps a solid plate of ceramite as cover, he's just no longer environmentally sealed up.



#8 Mekolomus

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 06:49 PM

Argh…. many oppinions.

One more.

Was at BC that when making strike to stun (or what was it called) attacker rolled d10+added str and compared it to targets d10+t+armor value.

To me the new rule at OW is bit unclear. How have you played it ?

Cos if i remember correctly it says that only attacker rolls d10+str and compares it to targets t+armour. But then again later at the same time text sounds to me that both players should roll cos it say something like both rolls or the rolls made….



#9 Kiton

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 11:07 PM

The Attacker makes a WS test at -20 base [ouch]

If successful, the attacker rolls 1d10+Strength Bonus, and compares this to the target's Toughness Bonus + Head AP.

Defender rolls nothing, just has that static rating there.

 

If 1d10+SB is higher than AP[head]+TB, the target is stunned for the difference in rounds, and gains fatigue.

I'm guessing "the difference between the rolls" is an artefact of old versions or text that wasn't cleared off when they copied to the book, as there's no rolling for the defender here.



#10 Face Eater

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 02:20 AM

It won't usually effect vehicles but this is 40K so there's plenty of things that are worth firing a Krak missile at that aren't vehicles.






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