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I think I just broke my teeth… (Stars of Inequity)


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#1 HappyDaze

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 04:34 PM

So I tried to use the random system and planet generator to set a scene for the upcoming game session. I have a system surrounded by Warp Turbulence with a Vigorous white star and a packed Inner Cauldron (IC) - four planets and a gravity riptide. This is what the IC looks like:

1) Planet/Small/Low Gravity/No Orbital Features/No Atmosphere/Burning World/One Landmass/No Resources

2) Gravity Riptide

3) Planet/Large and Dense/High Gravity/Lesser Moon and Large Asteroid/Moderate Toxic Atmosphere/Burning World/One Landmass/Major Industrial Metal (86), Sustainable Exotic Material (50), Major Ornamental (95)

4) Planet/Small and Dense/Normal Gravity/Lesser Moon/Moderate Toxic Atmosphere/Burning World/Two Landmasses/Significant Industrial Metal (83), Minimal Ornamental (12), Significant Industrial Metal (71), Major Radioactive (88), Sustainable Eldar Ruins (49)

5) Planet/Small/Low Gravity/No Orbital Features/Thin and Pure Atmosphere/Hot World/Limited Ecosystem/One Landmass/Wasteland (Desolate/Ruined)/Significant Radioactive (66)

Then we have the Primary Biosphere which was dissapointing with only a single Asteroid Belt. The Outer Reaches consisted of a Gas Giant and another Asteroid Belt. The Gas Giant is of typical size (for a Gas Giant) and has Titanic Gravity resulting in fifteen orbital features! Of these there are 5 Planetary Rings (Dust) - so a really big dust ring, 4 Lesser Moons, and six Moons. The lesser moons provide the following Resources: Limited Industrial Metal (30), Limited Exotic Material (38), Limited Radioactive (31).

Moons get generated like Planets (but lack Orbital Features of their own)…

1) Moon/Large/Normal Gravity/Moderate Tainted Atmosphere/Cold World/Liquid Water/Five Landmasses/Limited Radioactive (19), Limited Ornamental (27), Sustainable Industrial Metal (41), Major Ornamental (87), Significant Industrial Metal (67), Sustainable Radioactive (48)

2) Moon/Large/Normal Gravity/Heavy Toxic Atmosphere/Ice World/Five Landmasses/Minimal Ornamental (13), Limited Ornamental (34), Limited Industrial Metal (31), Sustainable Ornamental (57), Limited Radiactive (32)

3) Moon/Small/Low Gravity/Moderate Deadly Atmosphere/Cold World/One Landmass/Significant Radiactive (72), Sustainable Ornamental (43)

4) Moon/Small/Low Gravity/Thin Pure Atmosphere/Cold World/Trapped Water/One Landmass/Sustainable Xenos Ruin of Undiscovered Species (45)

5) Moon/Small/Normal Gravity/Moderate Pure Atmosphere/Cold World/Limited Ecosystem/Two Landmasses/Wasteland (Expansive), Plains(Extreme Temperature, Fertile), Mountains (Boundary)/No Resources

6) Moon/Small/Low Gravity/Thin Tainted Atmosphere/Ice World/Inhospitable/One Landmass/Sustainable Industrial Metal (61)

And that's it aside from Landmarks (which I just can't bring myself to care about right now). We have two different xenos ruins in the system, and one nice set of plains (that offer no resources to speak of). Nothing of note living here beyond simple lifeforms - maybe up to insects at best on two worlds.

This took about 2.5 hours of my time, and I doubt I'll ever do it again. If this can be put into a random system generator, I'd be very happy to use that (click a button, get a system - yes please), but otherwise it's just too much work for what you get out of it.


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#2 TiLT

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 08:40 AM

While you were discouraged by your experience with the generators, it was the opposite for me. They are very flexible, allowing you to put as much or as little effort into them as you wish. You can even approach them from two different directions. Either you start out with the system generator and create fitting adventures once you're done, or you start out with the adventure generator and create fitting worlds afterwards. 

I just put the finishing touches on my first system. Everything is randomly generated, except for cases where the book specifically tells me to fill in the blanks or choose an option. I then wrote descriptions of everything that matters so that the random results make sense. The final system is very evocative, and can house multiple adventures with considerable profit potential. I'm actually very pleased with the result. 

The star system is called Sathanas and has barely been touched by the forces of the Imperium in modern times, though it was explored in ages past and then abandoned. The reason the system is so unpopular is because it's in a particularly unstable part of the Warp, is cloaked from long-range scanners due to its massive dust clouds, and has a permanent Warp storm smack in the middle of its biggest planet. 

Feel free to use this system in your own campaigns if you wish. I created a PDF of it for ease of use. You can find the PDF here. Out of respect for FFG, I've deliberately structured this PDF so that you'll need Stars of Inequity to get the most out of it. I also used the Koronus Bestiary to generate the beasts on one of the planets, and the same applies for that book. There are simpler generators for this in SoI, but the Koronus Bestiary is better. SoI even points out the places where it's best to use KB instead of its own generators. 

I've got one question about my generated results: The Warp storm that covers Sathanas 1 gives a -20 penalty to all Navigation (Warp) tests made to get past it. The implication is that you need to deal with the Warp storm to fly to that planet or its moons, but that this penalty doesn't apply to general Warp travel to and from the system (there's a separate penalty for that listed elsewhere). How does this work exactly? I can't find any references in the rules about traveling through a Warp storm while in real space, yet this situation seems to demand exactly this. 

I'd love to see what the rest of you can come up with, and I'd love to hear what you think about the Sathanas system. As for myself, I'll probably create an additional system, this time starting with the adventure seeds and using them as the basis for the system itself. 



#3 HappyDaze

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 08:05 PM

TiLT said:

While you were discouraged by your experience with the generators, it was the opposite for me. They are very flexible, allowing you to put as much or as little effort into them as you wish. You can even approach them from two different directions. Either you start out with the system generator and create fitting adventures once you're done, or you start out with the adventure generator and create fitting worlds afterwards. 

You misunderstand. I'm not 'discouraged' by my experience - it's more that I'm strongly encouraged to get this in another form other than pencil/paper/dice since that method takes too much time for me. I do love the level of detail the system provides, but I just don't have that amount of time to spend laying out a star system when I also have all the other aspects of adventures to plan out.

So again, if someone has the knowledge and time to put this into a generator (Excel would be wonderful for me to use, but beyond me to set up for something so vast), I'd be VERY happy.

Anyone up to it?


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#4 Darkheyr

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 08:37 PM

If you're willing to to add some WH40k Fun yourself (or just use one or two 40k tables still), theres a lot of good system generator out there, many free.

 

I use AstroSynthesis myself, though its not free. It does let you generate entire 3D sectors of space with thousands of systems if needed, though, and you can freely generate/selfcreate planets, space stations, ships to place in there. I've started making a 3D representation of the Heathen Stars, since my players intend to colonize and conquer there.



#5 TiLT

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 10:41 PM

The thing about WH40k is that normal star system generators tend to miss the point of the system. WH40k is supposed to feel truly bizarre and alien at times, but these are things that don't happen unless the generator is tailor-made for the setting. Look at the PDF I posted above, for example. The Sathanas system has a mysterious and unpredictable gravity field around its otherwise unimpressive sun, the entire system is covered in Warp turbulence and Warp storms, and a huge mountain with Xenos ruins grows out of a whirlpool in a temperate oasis on a cold world. It's the kind of thing you wouldn't see in generic generators. 

As for creating an automated generator, I do have the technical know-how (my professional trade is programming, after all), but I'm hestitant to make something like this because FFG might not like it. These generators are a major part of the book, so making them freely available, even if some explanations are missing, could be taken as a breach of copyright if they're in a bad mood. 

 



#6 HappyDaze

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 08:27 AM

TiLT said:

As for creating an automated generator, I do have the technical know-how (my professional trade is programming, after all), but I'm hestitant to make something like this because FFG might not like it. These generators are a major part of the book, so making them freely available, even if some explanations are missing, could be taken as a breach of copyright if they're in a bad mood. 

 

We have random starship generators that take Components from multiple books. We also have databases of the various weapons from all sources across several game lines.

If the generator just gives the basic information I put in the first post - where having the book is needed to really get full use out of the info - then it should be fine. I just want something that does all of the dice rolling (and there's a lot of dice rolling) and lists the results in a concise manner.


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#7 susanbrindle

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 12:45 PM

Agreed. It should be legit as long as you still need the books in order to make sense of it. I'd definitely appreciate it too- rolling the d100 over and over again really slows down plotting.



#8 Asajev

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 08:10 PM

could we get an explenation on how the colony system works? example is names of items to use or if you have items for your ship that give you bonuses to set up the colony. As my local book store does not have the book yet and the PDF has not come out I would like to learn more about it so I can finish setting up a star system.



#9 Gurkhal

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 02:24 AM

While the system with making custom planets seems a bit potentially weird that's the 40k galaxy for you.

I'm probably going to get this book for the generators to be used in my Dark Heresy and Deathwatch campaigns. Thanks for sharing the thoughts and examples about and from the new book.



#10 H.B.M.C.

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 11:40 PM

HappyDaze said:

but otherwise it's just too much work for what you get out of it.


Hahahahahah! sonreir

Download these rules, and you'll never say that the SoI rules are 'too much work'.

BYE


Matt Eustace. Contributing Author Credits: Church of the Damned, The Lathe Worlds, The Lathe Worlds - The Lost Dataslate, Only War Core Rulebook, Hammer of the Emperor, Shield of Humanity, Tome of Fate, Tome of Blood, Tome of Excess and Tome of Decay.

The views expressed in this post are my own. I do not speak for or on behalf of Fantasy Flight Games.


#11 HappyDaze

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 01:00 AM

H.B.M.C. said:

HappyDaze said:

but otherwise it's just too much work for what you get out of it.


Hahahahahah! sonreir

Download these rules, and you'll never say that the SoI rules are 'too much work'.

BYE

 

Oh, but I will. Just because the BattleTech rules you point to are possibly more complicated doesn't mean that the SoI rules sit any better with me. Don't get me wrong, I like the end result of using them, but I don't want to make a few dice rolls, index the results on charts, note the results, then have to determine what needs to be rolled next, and then repeat this step dozens of times for a typical system. This is the kind of thing that a computer can and should do for us.


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#12 TiLT

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 09:28 PM

Here's another PDF of a star system generated with Stars of Inequity and The Koronus Bestiary. This one is much larger and more complex than the previous one, with the PDF being 14 pages crammed with content. Even if you don't want to use the system itself, there are 9 entirely new Xenos here, and several adventure hooks to get the players going. The two inhabited worlds in this system are very different from each other, which is nice. I still haven't gotten a single major Xenos race in any of the two systems I've generated, which is kind of surprising. Statistically there should have been at least one instance of an intelligent species in a system of this size, but my die rolls have been very average. At least there are ruins and Xenotech. 

It took a long time to make this system, but that's because I'm very thorough and try to make sense of everything. 

One thing that annoys me with Stars of Inequity is the landmark generator. There's just too few types of landmarks compared to how many you're supposed to generate. A large planet could easily have 15-30 landmarks, which means you're going to have a lot of repetition, or will have to do what I did: Make sense of it all. Even so, rolling for all these landmarks does force you to visualize the planet's surface, so at least that's a good thing. 



#13 HappyDaze

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 01:31 AM

That's a beautiful piece of work. Way too much work for me to even consider doing for a game, but I can certainly respect the effort that it must have taken. I can still hope for a computerized method of getting something like that with the push of a button.

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#14 H.B.M.C.

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 04:10 AM

Very cool PDF. I'm impressed by the level of detail.

I was obsessively nit-picking your movement values in my head, but I do that for every book I read so don't worry about it! burla

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Matt Eustace. Contributing Author Credits: Church of the Damned, The Lathe Worlds, The Lathe Worlds - The Lost Dataslate, Only War Core Rulebook, Hammer of the Emperor, Shield of Humanity, Tome of Fate, Tome of Blood, Tome of Excess and Tome of Decay.

The views expressed in this post are my own. I do not speak for or on behalf of Fantasy Flight Games.


#15 Asajev

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 05:12 PM

I apologize for repeating myself, but can we have some one with the book let us know what kinds of colonies we can create and how does the colony upgrade or development system works? I as others are extremely interested in how the colony system was designed.



#16 TiLT

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 05:32 PM

H.B.M.C. said:

I was obsessively nit-picking your movement values in my head, but I do that for every book I read so don't worry about it! burla

Were there any errors then? I was very thorough with the movement values, adjusting them for agility bonus, size, quadruped (twice at one point) and other traits/talents they had. 

Asajev: I talked about the colony creation rules in the other Stars of Inequity thread a few days ago. Most of the system is handled through endeavours. Want to upgrade a colony, which the people living there will insist that you do every time the colony grows? Well, that's a lesser endeavour for you! Doing so both offsets penalties from growth and demand, and gives a few bonuses based on what you built. 



#17 Asajev

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 05:52 PM

TiLT: I read what you wrote in the other thread, what I has I wish to know more aobut is what those endevours are, could you give examples of lesser, greater, and so on so we can get a feel for the kinds of things we can do. I am waiting on the PDF version so it will be a bit till I can a chance to look at the book myself. One additional question is are there any ship based components themed for colonization and what kind of items are provided with the theme of colonization in mind.



#18 TiLT

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 07:22 PM

Asajev said:

TiLT: I read what you wrote in the other thread, what I has I wish to know more aobut is what those endevours are, could you give examples of lesser, greater, and so on so we can get a feel for the kinds of things we can do. I am waiting on the PDF version so it will be a bit till I can a chance to look at the book myself. One additional question is are there any ship based components themed for colonization and what kind of items are provided with the theme of colonization in mind.

There is some new equipment in the book, but I don't think any of it is in the form of ship components. I don't have the book in front of me, so I can't check. Regardless, anything that already helps with objectives (such as a cargo bay) will help with colonization endeavours that have the right themes. 

There are no examples of endeavours in the book, as that's not what it wants to do. It gives the GM a few ideas about the purpose of an endeavour, then expects him to work out the details in cooperation with the players. Let's say you want to upgrade your colony so that it has Adeptus Arbites patroling your streets. The book lets you know that this is most likely a lesser endeavour, and that it should involve going to one of two specific (it names them) planets in the Calixis Sector to talk to the Arbites there and arrange a deal with them. It's the same with the colonizatoin endeavour itself, which is typically a greater endeavour. It gives you three basic things that the players need to do (create a charter, prepare the expedition, and colonize the planet), and the rest is up to you. It talks about the entire process at length, but not as an endeavour. It expects you to be able to figure out these things for yourself, which is for the best. It's not a numbers game. It's about the narrative, and too strict rules would get in the way. 

Once you do build the colony you've got numbers you can track and rules for how they change, but even there it's expected to be handled narratively. You have two tables with unexpected events, one good and one bad. There are no rules about when to roll on these tables. The text says that you should roll when the GM feels that it's appropriate. That's the attitude of the book in general.

You can do pretty much anything you want with this system, from setting up a research station which studies Xenos ruins, to building a gigantic hive city stripping its planet of industrial metals. That it's somewhat vague with the rules means you've got more flexibility to come up with interesting ideas on your own. 

The only downside is that there's the typical FFG lack of proofreading. A couple of tables in the middle of the generator chapter have are numbered wrong (as in: Roll on Table 2-12, but then it turns out that there's no such table and that you're really supposed to roll on 2-13. That's not a real example by the way) and some rules appear slightly contradictory or incomplete. The majority is good however, and I'm sure we'll get some clarification as more people start reading the book and asking questions. 

 



#19 H.B.M.C.

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 10:08 PM

Is there a "Shake'n'Bake" Colony? reir

 

TiLT said:

Were there any errors then? I was very thorough with the movement values, adjusting them for agility bonus, size, quadruped (twice at one point) and other traits/talents they had.


Freezing Death Cloud:
Movement is 4/8/12/24
Movement should be 4/8/12/24

Fuzzball
Movement is 3/6/9/18
Movement should be 4/8/12/24 (Ag 3 , -2 to Size = Ag 1, x2 due to Quardruped = 2, x2 due to Unnatural Speed = 4/8/12/24)

Void Diver:
Movement is 8/16/24/32
Movement should be 8/16/24/32 (for both flying and ground, so if I might make a suggestion, bump it to Flyer 10 so it's faster in the air, unless you think that's inappropriately fast)

Dystopicus:
Movement is 4/8/12/24
Movement should be 4/8/12/24

Windwyrm:
Movement is 0.5/1/2/3 
(to be honest I'm not sure why the movement here is so low - I am unable to locate the 'Earth-Scorn' and 'Wyrdwing' Traits - where are they?)
Movement should be 3/6/9/18 (just based upon its profile alone, and even with the traits I'm not sure about, min movment is always 1, never lower).

Bullwark:
Movement is 5/10/15/30
Movement should be 6/12/18/36 (Ag 15 = AB1, Size Enormous = AB+2 = AB3, Quadruped = x2AB = AB6, AB6 = 6/12/18/36)

Putrid Rose:
Movement is N/A

Movement should be N/A

That's all I got. cangrejo

BYE


Matt Eustace. Contributing Author Credits: Church of the Damned, The Lathe Worlds, The Lathe Worlds - The Lost Dataslate, Only War Core Rulebook, Hammer of the Emperor, Shield of Humanity, Tome of Fate, Tome of Blood, Tome of Excess and Tome of Decay.

The views expressed in this post are my own. I do not speak for or on behalf of Fantasy Flight Games.


#20 TiLT

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 11:38 PM

H.B.M.C. said:

Freezing Death Cloud:
Movement is 4/8/12/24
Movement should be 4/8/12/24

Fuzzball
Movement is 3/6/9/18
Movement should be 4/8/12/24 (Ag 3 , -2 to Size = Ag 1, x2 due to Quardruped = 2, x2 due to Unnatural Speed = 4/8/12/24)

Void Diver:
Movement is 8/16/24/32
Movement should be 8/16/24/32 (for both flying and ground, so if I might make a suggestion, bump it to Flyer 10 so it's faster in the air, unless you think that's inappropriately fast)

Dystopicus:
Movement is 4/8/12/24
Movement should be 4/8/12/24

Windwyrm:
Movement is 0.5/1/2/3 
(to be honest I'm not sure why the movement here is so low - I am unable to locate the 'Earth-Scorn' and 'Wyrdwing' Traits - where are they?)
Movement should be 3/6/9/18 (just based upon its profile alone, and even with the traits I'm not sure about, min movment is always 1, never lower).

Bullwark:
Movement is 5/10/15/30
Movement should be 6/12/18/36 (Ag 15 = AB1, Size Enormous = AB+2 = AB3, Quadruped = x2AB = AB6, AB6 = 6/12/18/36)

Putrid Rose:
Movement is N/A

Movement should be N/A

That's all I got. cangrejo

BYE

Out of those, only the Bullwark seems to be actually wrong. I'll update the PDF with the modified values.

The Fuzzball I'm a little unclear on. I get the impression that multiple doubled values shouldn't double the double, so to say. In other words, x2 + x2 is x3, not x4. I'm not sure if this is really correct, but it's the way these values are treated when a single modification-source increases in strength. Since both Quadruped and Size give x2, it becomes a little harder to figure out. I took a judgment call and made the total x3. 

The Void-Diver is as intended. It prefers to fly (at very, very high altitudes), but it can land, and once it does is actually extremely fast due to its Quadruped trait. Most flyers aren't quadrupeds in real life, which makes this a pretty unique little beast for us humans. 

The Windwyrm is very, very sluggish on the ground because of its Earth-Scorn trait, which I believe is from Stars of Inequity (book is at home, I'm at work). It's a creature that always flies, so it doesn't have any natural way of moving across the ground, hence the slow speeds. If you check the core rulebook page 265, you'll also see that creatures can actually have a base speed of 0.5 if their effective agility bonus is 0, so it's exactly as it should be. 






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