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Newbie Collision / Overlapping Questions


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#1 Mako13

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 08:33 PM

The other night, in only our second game, we had a couple of issues come up that weren't clearly spelled out in the rulebook (at least I couldn't find an answer when leafing through it again):

1. the player controlling a Tie fighter had a critical hit card on him.  On the critical card, it said that if his pilot collided with an object (presumably another fighter, asteroid, etc.), that he would receive another damage point.

During his move phase, before the Rebel player's fighter, he moved fine, not contacting any object.

However, when the Rebel player moved, there as an overlap created, so we moved the X-Wing back along the move template, until the two fighters were in contact with one another.

At this point, we weren't clear if the contact resulted in a "collision", and if the Tie fighter was then destroyed due to that.  I am aware that neither fighter can fire on one another, because they are in contact, but was unclear of what to do, since the X-Wing pilot created the issue.

I do recall reading that the fighters are assumed to maneuver around one another in 3-D space, which can be represented by removing a peg section, if needed/desired.

Should the Tie fighter have been destroyed?

2. also, related to this, the X-Wing, which was performing an easy maneuver was unable to make his complete move, due to the overlap.  Does he still get to count this as a full green maneuver, for stress token removal purposes?

We assumed so, since I didn't see anything in the rules that stated otherwise, but wasn't 100% sure.

The only clear issue in the rules for overlaps is that the 180 degree turn is negated, if that occurs during the move - had that happen during our first game, and was subsequently destroyed by a pursuing Rebel fighter.

 

Any clarifications will be greatly appreciated.

 

 

 

 



#2 chrisdk

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 09:52 PM

Mako13 said:

 

The other night, in only our second game, we had a couple of issues come up that weren't clearly spelled out in the rulebook (at least I couldn't find an answer when leafing through it again):

1. the player controlling a Tie fighter had a critical hit card on him.  On the critical card, it said that if his pilot collided with an object (presumably another fighter, asteroid, etc.), that he would receive another damage point.

During his move phase, before the Rebel player's fighter, he moved fine, not contacting any object.

However, when the Rebel player moved, there as an overlap created, so we moved the X-Wing back along the move template, until the two fighters were in contact with one another.

At this point, we weren't clear if the contact resulted in a "collision", and if the Tie fighter was then destroyed due to that.  I am aware that neither fighter can fire on one another, because they are in contact, but was unclear of what to do, since the X-Wing pilot created the issue.

I do recall reading that the fighters are assumed to maneuver around one another in 3-D space, which can be represented by removing a peg section, if needed/desired.

Should the Tie fighter have been destroyed?

2. also, related to this, the X-Wing, which was performing an easy maneuver was unable to make his complete move, due to the overlap.  Does he still get to count this as a full green maneuver, for stress token removal purposes?

We assumed so, since I didn't see anything in the rules that stated otherwise, but wasn't 100% sure.

The only clear issue in the rules for overlaps is that the 180 degree turn is negated, if that occurs during the move - had that happen during our first game, and was subsequently destroyed by a pursuing Rebel fighter.

 

Any clarifications will be greatly appreciated.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1. IIRC a collision is only occuring when you are overlapping an obstacle, not a fighter and then only if you roll a hit on the die you roll for overlapping said obstacle. (Edit: Apparently the rules don't spell it out, but if it says "another" damage, then it could only happen if it gets a damage token in the first place from rolling that die)

 

2. IIRC He would still count as having performed a green maneuver. (Edit: FAQ page 2)


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#3 magadizer

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 03:06 AM

Can you type the exact wording of the Critical damage card you were referring to? It makes a difference to the answer. Probably most of us that post regularly on this board don't have those words memorized like we do many of the cards that get played all the time.

Also, for question #2: it still counts as a green. From the official FAQ:

 

Q: If a ship executes a green maneuver and overlaps a ship or obstacle, is one stress token still removed from it?
A: Yes.
 
They still lose their action though of course. 
 
Remember also that the core rulebook also specifies that red maneuvers still count as red maneuvers as well, so you should gain a stress token. ANd if you were doing a Koiogran turn, you cannot turn around but have to treat it as a RED STRAIGHT maneuver. So you still get the stress, lose your action, and are facing the wrong way. Try to avoid this. :)

Be seeing you.

#4 mrfroggies

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 06:51 AM

Here's the text on the critical hit card - "After you execute a maneuver that causes you to overlap either another ship or an obstacle token, suffer 1 damage."

The key word here is "you", You would check the critical hit effect during your Activation Phase.  If some one else runs into you they loes there actions but this doesn't trigger your critical hit effect.



#5 ziggy2000

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 11:33 AM

mrfroggies said:

 

Here's the text on the critical hit card - "After you execute a maneuver that causes you to overlap either another ship or an obstacle token, suffer 1 damage."

The key word here is "you", You would check the critical hit effect during your Activation Phase.  If some one else runs into you they loes there actions but this doesn't trigger your critical hit effect.

 

 

And don't forget that if you are overlapping an obstacle token, you will suffer 1 damage AND have to roll an attack die to possibly suffer another damage, as per the "Moving Into and Through Obstacles" rules on page 20.

 



#6 Mako13

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 05:21 PM

Thanks for all the replies.

Looks like we managed to play it correctly, but it is good to know for future reference.



#7 Parakitor

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 05:23 PM

I'm really nervous to post this question and sound noobish, but I have searched the rules quite a bit, and I haven't found the answer. Do forgive me if it has already been addressed.

The rules for moving into and through obstacles state that any time a ship or its maneuver template overlaps an obstacle, you lose your action and roll for damage. But what if on your way to/through the obstacle, you overlap another ship, so you are moved backward along your template and never actually reach said obstacle? Do you still roll for damage and lose your action?



#8 Torresse

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 07:12 PM

Parakitor said:

I'm really nervous to post this question and sound noobish, but I have searched the rules quite a bit, and I haven't found the answer. Do forgive me if it has already been addressed.

The rules for moving into and through obstacles state that any time a ship or its maneuver template overlaps an obstacle, you lose your action and roll for damage. But what if on your way to/through the obstacle, you overlap another ship, so you are moved backward along your template and never actually reach said obstacle? Do you still roll for damage and lose your action?

thats an excelent question. Its one I debated in my head but never really did anything but think about it. We know from The FAQ that you can end up dieing because you crash and end up off the board.

To be honest wrecking is the only silly rule in the game (though I dont see any ways around it) I mean if your like me, you can abuse the crap out of it by making darth vader crash into a lacky for 5 turns while Horton does his vulture interpatatin and ions him to death. (had that happen, my guy crashed into vader at a slight angle, and both of us move forward 1 round.

I mean its kind of silly to have a ywing touch vaders nose and be like, Im not moving untill you move. With Vader being a baby and saying, Im not going to even turn my turbo lasers on to try to shoot you, I dont want to try focus or anything. and ofcoarse somehow he is able to use the force to move his ship around trying to evade the Ion cannon (though the force failed him every time)



#9 ziggy2000

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 06:46 PM

Parakitor, we know you are not a noob. At least, that's what hothie has told me. reir

However, you do pose an interesting question. Here's my take.

If, during the movement phase, your template overlaps an obstacle token, then yes, you will have to roll for possible damage and lose your action. If there were no ship to run into and you also ended up overlapping said obstacle with your base, then you also lose your attack for the round. In the situation you describe, if you also overlap another ship and move back so that you do not overlap the obstacle at the end of your movement, then you will not lose your attack. You lose your action in any case (from template overlapping obstacle or ship base overlapping ship base), and you cannot target the ship you are touching, but if, by moving backwards, you do not end up on the obstacle, you can still attack a ship that is in your firing arc, in range, and you are not touching.

It's an unusual situation, but it is possible.

 

 



#10 Duraham

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 09:38 PM

hmm, better ask the FFG guys, it doesn't make sense that you would magically take damage from a rock that is like 500m away from you



#11 Parakitor

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 12:43 AM

I was re-reading my comment and realized that I should apologize. I have nothing against newbies; we were all new at this game and unfamiliar with the rules at some point. I really just didn't want to post a question that had been answered dozens of times already. But we all know how useless the FFG search function is, so I can understand how it happens.

Anyway, I submitted the question over the weekend and will post the reply when I receive it.

 



#12 dvang

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 05:55 AM

Parakitor said:

I'm really nervous to post this question and sound noobish, but I have searched the rules quite a bit, and I haven't found the answer. Do forgive me if it has already been addressed.

The rules for moving into and through obstacles state that any time a ship or its maneuver template overlaps an obstacle, you lose your action and roll for damage. But what if on your way to/through the obstacle, you overlap another ship, so you are moved backward along your template and never actually reach said obstacle? Do you still roll for damage and lose your action?

Only the final placement of the ship's base is affected by overlapping, not the template. The template gets placed as normal. If the template overlaps the obstacle, then the moving ship would still need to roll for the obstacle, even if the moving ship's base does not get to reach the obstacle due to overlapping bases. That is how the rules currently read.

 



#13 Grimwalker

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 12:49 PM

There's a thread on Boardgamegeek for "that is illogical Captain" for just such asinine situations.



#14 ArcticSnake

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 08:07 PM

Wouldn't that only happen if the ship you are going to overlap is already on the obstacle token? Maybe in the process of trying to avoid the ship in the obstacle token your pilot hits one of the many smaller rocks orbiting said obstacle. pensativo :P


Battlescribe X-Wing Miniatures Data file links:
Index.bsi file: https://dl.dropboxus...tures/index.bsi
Index.xml file: https://dl.dropboxus...tures/index.xml

 


#15 ArcticSnake

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 08:14 PM

You know the ones…  small rocks that are not depicted on the obstacle token itself because they are too small and too easy to avoid if you weren't to busy trying to avoid a collision with another ship

 

I know that they exist because I watched Armageddon.  :D


Battlescribe X-Wing Miniatures Data file links:
Index.bsi file: https://dl.dropboxus...tures/index.bsi
Index.xml file: https://dl.dropboxus...tures/index.xml

 


#16 Parakitor

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 12:52 PM

Alright, here's the response to the question I asked above:

"I added your question to an upcoming FAQ update.


Here's the ruling: If your maneuver template (or your ship's base at the end of the template) overlaps the obstacle, but due to collisions your ship never reaches the obstacle, then you do NOT roll for damage. As you'd already guessed, the ship loses its action, but it isn't otherwise penalized by the obstacle that it never actually reached.

Thanks for playing!

James Kniffen
Associate Game Designer
Fantasy Flight Games"






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