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is 3e a good intro gamefor complete begginers to RPGs?


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#1 Rosiel

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 12:40 AM

I want to introduce RPGs to my girlfriend and couple of friends.

They had not heard these kind of games before I mentioned them and they are not familiar with computer game RPGs either.

Generally, they like board games, however if the game is too heavy and requires much thinking they get tired relatively quickly.

They are fans of fantasy movies and novels however, so I have hopes that they miht get engaged to them :)

Now my favourited RPGs are various d20 games (mostly Mutand and MAsterminds, d&d 3.5 and 4) and WFRP 2e and my favourite gaming world is deffinetly the warhammer one, or my custom ones.

Of these these games, the most simple and eays to get into I thi is WFRP 2e. I had not though of 3e before, but I stumbled upon it as I was looking for ideas on what to play with them.

My questions:

- Has anyone had experience of teaching 3e and/or 2e to complete beginners. How did it go and kind of preparation did you do ?

- Does anyone perhaps have any other gaming systems to recommend ?

- Do you think that the learning curve is that much lower for 3e over 2e ? Do those weird-looking dice and cards really make that difference ? From my experience with D&D 4e, the detailed grid made things more complicated than simple. I dislike playing with grid unless I am playing with very experiend power-gamers, in which vcase it can be fun :P So I am wondering how those weird WFRP3e standing cards work…



#2 Emirikol

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 05:36 AM

- Has anyone had experience of teaching 3e and/or 2e to complete beginners. How did it go and kind of preparation did you do ?

- Does anyone perhaps have any other gaming systems to recommend ?

- Do you think that the learning curve is that much lower for 3e over 2e ? Do those weird-looking dice and cards really make that difference ? From my experience with D&D 4e, the detailed grid made things more complicated than simple. I dislike playing with grid unless I am playing with very experiend power-gamers, in which vcase it can be fun :P So I am wondering how those weird WFRP3e standing cards work…

 

I've taught it numerous times and run it at conventions.  As long as you know how to run an RPG and give them lots of skill checks, you'll be fine.  You may wish to remove a couple elements for the first game:  Talent socketing, Party Sheets,  universal effects and other obscure rules, and have them use a pre-gen character from Liber Fanatica 7.  It will be more about having a STORY than trying to hook them on some kind of mechanical invention (as you say they're not into heavy mechanics), so let their minds run wild.

The learning curve will be the same, because you're going to do all of their odd math for them initially and not nit-pick on rules for the first couple sessions.

Do not have a spellcaster in the first group.

Make sure you have them Tally up their TOTAL DAMAGE (strength plus the DR) and write it next to the weapon so they don't have to add it up each time.  Do the same with their TOTAL SOAK (toughness plus armor soak).

 

As I noted earlier, have them make lots of skill checks, that will get them involved with how to play the game right off the bat.  

..and don't nit-pick rules in the first couple sessions (true for anyone new to RPG's). 

 

Here's a tutorial:  http://rpggeek.com/f...edition/general

jh

 



#3 k7e9

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 06:40 AM

Rosiel said:

- Has anyone had experience of teaching 3e and/or 2e to complete beginners. How did it go and kind of preparation did you do?

Yes, I've taught WFRP 3ed to complete beginners and the first thing I recomend is that you know the rules well before starting to teach. Players, and especially complete beginners, can get bored quickly if the game seems to complex or hard, the GM looking up rules all the time does not help.

Run a characteristic fantasy adventure, since you have fantasy fans in the group. You know your group best, but a heroic, short adventure (a few sessions long maybe) might do the trick. You know, super villain abducts a fancy lady and takes her to the fortress to be sacrificed and the players must act.

My teaching adventure was a group of dwarves making a journey to some mountains, fighting orcs and goblins to recover an artifact. Straightforward, fun and a lot of oppurtunity to use the rules when the players were traveling between places and going into taverns in the villages.

Do not focus heavily on the rules, but have them make skill checks often, just to learn the mechanics of the dice. Basically, if the players know how to roll and interpret skill checks, they need to know little more to enjoy the game initially.

Rosiel said:

- Does anyone perhaps have any other gaming systems to recommend ?

No. ;)
There are simpler systems out there. Depending on what you like Trail of Cthulhu has a great system which is easy and quick to learn but still very good. Most tasks your character has trained succeed automatically, and you only ever roll a single D6 at a time. It fits well with the Cthulhu universe and focuses on the players and their investigation (which will probably end with them dead, insane or both, much like in the warhammer world).

Rosiel said:

- Do you think that the learning curve is that much lower for 3e over 2e ? Do those weird-looking dice and cards really make that difference ? From my experience with D&D 4e, the detailed grid made things more complicated than simple. I dislike playing with grid unless I am playing with very experiend power-gamers, in which vcase it can be fun :P So I am wondering how those weird WFRP3e standing cards work…

The cards work well. Focus on learning the game and to use the action cards. Action cards are great, the players see exactly what (combat) actions they can do, and all the rules for it are right in front of them. You can remove talents, party sheet, stress, fatigue, insanities etc. alltoghether in your first gaming sessions to make it light on the rules. It's easy to add new elements, so you can start off basic. Initially we played with very basic rules, then I started having a short "this is the new rule of today" before the session began, and then I'd use that rule a lot during the session so the players familiarized themselves with the new elements. The players I've taught have felt the action cards and the dice were a great help when learing the system. They have all felt they could enjoy and have fun almost right off the bat.

The dice are quite intuitive and easy to learn. In combination with the action cards it's quite easy to read if you succeeded/failed and so on.

The cards and character stand ups might also speak to their board gaming experience, but WFRP is very far from beeing a board game. It is a role playing game all the way to the core, but with bits and cards that enhance and aid the experience.

Lastly, ask the players if they want to create characters or if they want pre generated ones. Liber fanatica has several pre generated characters, so the players could basically say "I want to be a dwarf soldier" and you could just pick one from LF. Or if they want to create characters, have them create them together but be prepared to offer a selection of choices from whatever career they might want to play. The number of action cards you can pick from might be intimidating when you have not played the game and do not know the rules. Pick out a smaller selection of actions for them to choose from, or simply have them play with only basic actions at first.



#4 Ceodryn

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 08:09 AM

Hi Rosie,

I think you'll find that WFRP3 is not so difficult to run and GM, but indeed you need to know the rules well.

I am currently designing a Beginner Box for WFRP3, with the goal to teach new players to RPG with either A Day Late or Journey to Black Fire Pass adventures. 

Check my thread about it here.

Cheers

Ceodryn



#5 Emirikol

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 09:58 AM

Ceodryn, I also started a similar thread for beginners over at RPGGeek.com.  Please link up your beginners guide thread there too if you'd like :)

http://rpggeek.com/t...-to-teach-wfrp3

jh



#6 Remorhaz

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 04:17 PM

i would highly recommend running Descent 2nd edition for your group before warhammer 3 especially if they like board games. Descent 2 will get them used to symbolic dice, character cards, action cards,  token tracking, character roles, fatigue etc etc. it will also familiarize them with the standard fantasy races, magic items, and weapons in armor usually found in fantasy RPGs. 

 



#7 Yepesnopes

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 06:29 PM

If you already own games like D&D 3.5 and Warhammer 2, which are good as fantasy rpgs, I don't see why you should buy yet another game to introduce your people to rpgs. Any of these games should do.

Said that, I think Warhammer 3 may be a bit "heavy" for a beginer. If you want to go for it, yes or yes, then follow what people says and during the first game don't use all the components, they will be overwhelming for a beginer. As, comented, you can start with Ceodyn beginner's set.

Finally, let me add a game to the list. The One Ring. It is a very good game, really. It is a game with very easy (and very solid) mechanics where the rules don't stand inbetween character interpretation. Additionally, it is a setting everybody knows and this will help new players evocating the world. The book is totally unexpensive and it comes with a good intro scenario. There is an additional free intro scenario (or it was free a few months ago); both of them are good for introducing people to rpgs and to the game, check the Cubicle7 web page for more.

This brings me to the point, that if you choose Warhammer 3, then as intro adventure I would suggest to pick up Journey to Black Fire Pass. The one comming with the core set (An Eye for an Eye) is far to complex for beginners, although a very good adventure!

Ah! one last thing, you will need to get extra custom dice, as many as you can. Otherwise the game is going to slow down a lot because players will need to share dice. The dice comming with the core box are just not enough.

All in all, Warhammer 3 is a good game, but frankly speaking I am not sure is the best game to introduce new players. My advice is that if you already own rpg games, go for one of those to introduce to your friends. Warhammer 2 has a great intro escenario, if you have the Oldenhaller contract from Warhammer v1, this is even a better one!! For new players is great, it really gives a good sense of the Warhammer world. Then if your players get hooked on rpgs and the warhammer world, go and make the investment to buy Warhammer 3.

Cheers,

Yepes


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