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[Plot] Song of the Raven (F 80)


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#1 Aertes

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Posted 04 March 2009 - 11:14 AM

We have a little discussion aobut this card and the way it interacts with Black Raven and White Raven cards.

Example1:
Some people say that if there is an Black Raven in play, and then someone reveals Song of the Raven, then its no logner summer since the plot says that nothing can change the season while it's revelaed, so the "its summer" part of the Black Raven wouldn't work and the season would return to its "no-season" start.

Example 2:
Others say that the Song of the Raven works avoiding effects that "change" season. Since the Black Raven was already in play before someone revealed the Song of the Raven, its already summer, so no change of season is made, and its still summer.

Wich one is the right one please?.



#2 ktom

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Posted 04 March 2009 - 11:28 AM

 Well, the text of the card is:

"Raven. Any effect that would make it Summer or Winter is considered inactive while The Raven's Song is revealed."

So it's not actually saying "effects that change the season don't work." It's saying "effects that make it one season or another are inactive."

By specifically making these effects inactive, it includes the constant effects that are already in place, not just the ones that have yet to be played. So Example #1 is the correct interpretation.

For those in the group that are probably getting caught up in the "would make it" wording, remember that constant effects (like "It is Summer" on the Black Raven) have no point of resolution. You play the card and it essentially creates a new, ongoing game state. Because this isn't an effect that is initiated and resolved (here's a good indicator of that; could you cancel it being Summer when the BR is played - assuming you had a Raven-esque cancel?), it is working all the time. As such, it "would make it" Summer every moment it is in play.

Anyway, the fact that they bothered to give the plot the Raven trait pretty well tells you it was meant to counter the "immune to non-Raven cards" ravens already in play. (Since a Black Raven's immunity is not active until it was played, the plot wouldn't need the Raven trait if all it was supposed to do was stop you from playing one of the attachments.)

If the plot was just supposed to stop a season from being changed, but keep the current season as Summer or Winter, it would probably use a simpler "seasons cannot change" format.



#3 Aertes

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Posted 04 March 2009 - 11:32 AM

I noticed that the is an old thread about this same question, and the answer seems to be the same. Thanks again ktom.



#4 RJM

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Posted 04 March 2009 - 11:48 AM

It doesn't actually say that it only "stops cards from changing the seasons" it says "Any effect that would make it Summer or Winter is considered inactive while The Raven's Song is revealed."

So does the Black/White Raven have "an effect that would make it Summer or Winter"?  Yes it does.  Therefore, it is considered inactive... and thats the strength and usefulness of the Raven's Song plot card.  You have a whole turn where it will be neither Summer or Winter, and it doesn't matter what season changing cards anyone might play otherwise.

EDIT:  Lol.  Too slow for the ktom bomb!



#5 ktom

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Posted 04 March 2009 - 11:49 AM

Aertes said:

I noticed that the is an old thread about this same question, and the answer seems to be the same. Thanks again ktom.

De nada. The difference between passive and constant, and what affects what, can be tricky sometimes. ~ Aren't we glad it's so easy to play this game "as the cards and rules are written?" No room for interpretation here!






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