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Bargain of the Gate vs. Nightgaunt glitch


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#1 eiterorm

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 10:33 AM

I played a game with the Lurker at the Threshold as herald yesterday. At one point in the game, we drew Bargain of the Gate as a result of a gate opening in the Mythos Phase. The investigator with the most power happened to possess the Find Gate spell, so we were quite happy with the outcome. We moved the investigator to the Other World leading from the most pressing gate in Arkham, but then we started wondering: should the investigator be delayed or not? The card didn't indicate that the investigator should be delayed, but if she wasn't delayed, she would have the opportunity to cast Find Gate in the following Movement Phase. This would cause her to return to Arkham without having any Other World encounters, somewhat similar to the infamous Nightgaunt glitch.

There are some significant differences between Bargain of the Gate and the Nightgaunt glitch, though. If you're drawn through a gate by a Nightgaunt and do not possess the Find Gate spell, you would have to have two Other World encounters just like normal. However, if you do possess the Find Gate spell, you can cast it immediately, as you're still in the Movement Phase, and return to Arkham the very same turn you entered the gate. Thus, Find Gate makes you skip two encounters instead of one, as normal, and as a result of this you may enter and seal a gate in the very same turn. We've all debated this before, and I guess most of us have house-ruled the glitch.

With Bargain of the Gate, on the other hand, the effect (usually) takes place in the Mythos Phase, which means that you begin your following Movement Phase in an Other World. If you do possess the Find Gate spell, you get no Other World encounters, because you cast the spell in the Movement Phase. However, If you do not possess the Find Gate spell, you still get to skip one Other World encounter, because you move from the first to the second area of the Other World during movement. So in the case with Bargain of the Gate, casting Find Gate only makes you skip one Other World encounter, as is normal.

Furthermore, when a Nightgaunt is in Arkham, it can be exploited over and over again, whereas Bargain of the Gate is not likely to be drawn several times during a game. Therefore, if drawn, Bargain of the Gate will most likely be a one-time effect, which, thematically speaking, is a result of your pact with that eldritch being. So, does that justify allowing an investigator with the Find Gate spell to have no encounters in the Other World? What would you say?



#2 Julia

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 12:38 PM

Investigators are delayed by gates opening under them; this is not the case, the investigator enters an OW of her choice as a result of a different thing, so I'd say she is not delayed. The fact that she had the Find gate spell is just a happy coincidence (technically, that Reckoning card is 99% of the times a free seal).

There are other situations where you don't have OW encounters, though. If you have a Telescope, you can easily stomp on all high freq locations waiting for a gate to open, and if you have the Find Gate spell, all the better. Mark cannot be delayed. An Ally should offer you the same service (Erich Wess, IIRC). So, these things can happen. But it's good if they happen because of some lucky card draws and combos; the Nightgaunt Heresy is something different ::devil::


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#3 Full Doom Track

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 01:36 PM

I'm with Julia on this one.  If the card opened a gate underneath you then you definitely would be delayed.  Reckoning cards are just a way for the Lurker to remain in communication with the investigators who have made deals with him.  This should come as no surprise from a thematic standpoint, but from a pure rules standpoint I can see your case.

 

The problem with comparing the Nightgaunt + Find Gate combination to Bargain of the Gate is simply that the Reckoning card is one of many and can only be used once (unless you're drawing a LOT of them).  Whereas the Nightgaunt + Find Gate (Yog-Sothothery) glitch can be consistently reused.



#4 The Professor

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 03:22 PM

Well, as the Hat Trick opinion ~ I agree with both Julia and FullDoomTrack as the Gate did not appear at their location…belive me, given the number of things that can go wrong in Arkham, coupled with the oft cited Arkham's Razor when interpreting rules, I would say take the opportunity to safely seal a Gate and move away quickly.


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#5 eiterorm

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 06:09 AM

Well, we ended up playing like all three of you said. But it was not because of me. =P I actually argued that the investigator should be delayed in order to not make the game too easy, but my arguments were dismissed. ^__^ I guess I tend to be a little strict in these situations. So in conclusion: an investigator may indeed have a no-encounter speed run through an Other World --- when the cards are right. =P



#6 CrusherJoe

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 08:17 AM

"Nightgaunt Heresy" ™ - Julia

 

I'll give you a dime for every time I use this phrase.



#7 Julia

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 10:02 AM

CrusherJoe said:

"Nightgaunt Heresy" ™ - Julia

 

I'll give you a dime for every time I use this phrase.

::laughter:: thx, Joe!


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