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New Rules in Operation Icarus


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#1 Kriegschatten

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 07:13 AM

So, as you folks may have noticed, the Operation Icarus rules suddenly appeared for download today.  Looks like they’re trying to make up for releasing the Operation Hades rules so late by releasing these super early.  Unlike with Hades, though, they clipped out the combat scenarios. avergonzado_triste

 

Here are my thoughts on the new rules, after a quick read through:

QUONSET HUTS: Not sure why they needed yet another set of rules for buildings, but no real complaints, I guess.

 

TREES: These look interesting.  However, it seems a little odd that only flamethrowers and artillery weapons can destroy trees.  It seems like stuff in the new Explosives Weapons category should be able to, as well as Phaser Blast weapons.

 

MINEFIELDS: Not sure what to think about these.  For one thing, it doesn’t say how to set up a minefield.  So, I’m guessing that they can only be used in scenarios that specifically indicate where they are. 

Also, it doesn’t say anything about Jump units being immune to their effects, which seems kind of weird.

 

AIR ALERT: Looks cool, but are they going to retrofit previous units with this skill?  If not, then any new anti-air units are really going to eclipse the old ones (unless they cost a fortune, points-wise).

 

CHEAT DEATH: Not sure what to think about this one, either.  It’s basically Heroic Attack, but it doesn’t always work, and when it does work, it only protects you from a single attack?   

That doesn’t seem that great.  However, it seems like Sergeant Victory can use this while piloting a vehicle, which does seem intriguing.

 

ENGINEER VEHICLE: Wow, they can destroy bunkers!  Er, except it explicitly says that there are no bunkers, yet?!  I guess we’ll have to wait and see what the rules for bunkers are before getting excited about this ability.  Oh, they can clear mines, too, but since it seems like mines will only appear in Icarus scenarios, it doesn’t seem that great in the grand scheme of things.

 

MAGAZINE RELOAD: Oooo, artillery weapons that don’t have to reload?!  Looks like the school of thought which believes that the Konigslother doesn’t have to pause between volleys just got some backup.

 

RECOVERY VEHICLE: Self repair is always nice and the ability to regain victory points by salvaging defeated vehicles could add an interesting layer of strategy to the game.  It also doesn’t look like they’re charging too much for this ability—the Maksim is only 26 points, for example, which is dirt cheap for a medium walker.

 

DUAL AMMO WEAPONS: This is an ability that seems long overdue, since I’m pretty sure a lot of WW2 heavy weapons could shoot different ammo types.  Sounds like the SSU Heavy Mortar team will definitely have this ability, but this seems like another ability that could be retrofitted to older units.

 

EXPLOSIVES WEAPONS: Wow, they can blow open bunkers!  Oh, yeah, there are no bunkers, yet. enfadado  Still, they can blow up anti-tank traps (should you ever want to do that), and it seems like the ability has been retrofitted on to Demo Charges and Dynamite.

 

SETUP WEAPONS: As expected, these weapons get a penalty for trying to move and attack the same round.  I’m a little confused about how this rule will work in practice, though.  The Choppers, for example, have SETUP on their card, but it’s not tied to specific weapon.  So, what happens if they, say, attack in close combat with Knife & Grenade?  Unlike the Jagdgrenadiere, it seems like all three soldiers have close combat weapons.  So, will they roll three dice?  But if SETUP applies, do they have to roll half of that?  If so, do you round up or round down?  So many questions! atontado  Looks like a FAQ entry is going to be needed for this one.

 

 

 



#2 Loophole Master

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 08:01 AM

I posted this under "Rules", but here it goes again:

 

 

- Quonset huts: What is the LOS out of those doors and windows? Can you shoot out of them at full 45º angle like a "large entrance" or is it narrower like a "small entrance"?

- Trees: When it says you "cannot simultaneously target both the tree and a unit sharing the same space as the tree" are they talking about using the same weapon line to attack both simultaneously, or that a unit simply can't target both at the same time? I would think that it would work like a Tank Trap, where you can target both at the same time with different weapon lines, but the attack on the tree is resolved after the attack on the unit.

- Minefields: For each mine you roll one die for each miniature that steps on it. But if it's a squad with a hero, is the damage assigned directly to each soldier, or can the hero soak up damage done to his squad like he would any attack? Meaning, does this work like an incendiary blast or like troops inside a destroyed vehicle?

- Explosive weapons: As far as I can tell, the only current units who benefit from this are the BBQ Squad and the Priest, right?

- While this book reprints several rules published on previous books, it unfortunately fails to update them in way, failing to clear up issues that have been brought up time and again, like tracked vehicle movement (beyond the no diagonal stuff), LOS from a Command Vehicle for most of the NCO's abilities, etc, and it actually contradicts the latest FAQ with the old ruling that a carried unit ONLY activates when it exits its carrier.

- Lots of stuff about bunkers… and yet no bunkers.

- Allies planes occupy 2 squares. So, again, how do they move? I hate it that the size of the plane's base will further limit the options of where it can end its move.

- Panzerprinz: It says you can roll his Ace Pilot skill before he activates, and plan accordng to the result. Does that mean that you can roll his Ace Pilot check, and then go on with the round activating other units and only use Panzerprinz later on, keeping that roll result?



#3 Kriegschatten

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 09:21 AM

Loophole Master said:

I posted this under "Rules", but here it goes again:

Yeah, my bad there!  When I didn't see any posts about the new rules in the main forum I made my post before checking elsewhere!

 

Loophole Master said:

- Quonset huts: What is the LOS out of those doors and windows? Can you shoot out of them at full 45º angle like a "large entrance" or is it narrower like a "small entrance"?

Well, it says "Units can attack through the windows and doors of quonset huts following the normal rules for structures".

Operation Cerberus says "Small entrances are narrower than the width of one space', so it seems like you would treat windows on the Quonset huts like small entrances.

 

Loophole Master said:

- Trees: When it says you "cannot simultaneously target both the tree and a unit sharing the same space as the tree" are they talking about using the same weapon line to attack both simultaneously, or that a unit simply can't target both at the same time? I would think that it would work like a Tank Trap, where you can target both at the same time with different weapon lines, but the attack on the tree is resolved after the attack on the unit.

 

I agree that the text is ambiguous.  Your interpretation seems reasonable though!

 

Loophole Master said:

- Minefields: For each mine you roll one die for each miniature that steps on it. But if it's a squad with a hero, is the damage assigned directly to each soldier, or can the hero soak up damage done to his squad like he would any attack? Meaning, does this work like an incendiary blast or like troops inside a destroyed vehicle?

The text says "roll one die separately for each miniature in the unit. If a is rolled, the miniature suffers one point of damage".

To me, it seems very clear that a hero CANNOT soak up the damage. 

 

Loophole Master said:

- Explosive weapons: As far as I can tell, the only current units who benefit from this are the BBQ Squad and the Priest, right?

Yes, I believe you are correct.  Well, there is that one mission in Operation Blue Thunder where all of the attacking infantry units get demo charges…

 

Loophole Master said:

- While this book reprints several rules published on previous books, it unfortunately fails to update them in way, failing to clear up issues that have been brought up time and again, like tracked vehicle movement (beyond the no diagonal stuff), LOS from a Command Vehicle for most of the NCO's abilities, etc, and it actually contradicts the latest FAQ with the old ruling that a carried unit ONLY activates when it exits its carrier.

Yes, I noticed the same thing.  Very annoying.  We could really use clarification on how two-square vehicles move.

 

Loophole Master said:

- Lots of stuff about bunkers… and yet no bunkers.

I guess they're trying to make up for Operation Hades where they gave us Tracked Vehicle but no rules as to how they worked!

 

 

Loophole Master said:

 - Allies planes occupy 2 squares. So, again, how do they move? I hate it that the size of the plane's base will further limit the options of where it can end its move.

Agreed.  This seems like kind of a handicap for the Allies since neither the Axis planes nor the SSU choppers seems to have this problem.

 

 

Loophole Master said:

- Panzerprinz: It says you can roll his Ace Pilot skill before he activates, and plan accordng to the result. Does that mean that you can roll his Ace Pilot check, and then go on with the round activating other units and only use Panzerprinz later on, keeping that roll result?

The rules for Ace Pilot on page 5 say "roll one combat die when the piloted vehicle activates", so I think it's another example of the fluff not matching the crunch, like when the fluff for the Prinzluther said you can use the Artillery Strike skill while embarked.



#4 Major Mishap

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 11:21 AM

Can't see a problem with jumpers and minefields, they would only count if they end their move on one.



#5 Kriegschatten

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 05:18 AM

Major Mishap said:

Can't see a problem with jumpers and minefields, they would only count if they end their move on one.

 

Oh, I agree that's the *logical* interpretation, I just wish that they would have been more clear about it. 

After all, the rules specifically call out that aircraft ignore minefields, so would it really have been that hard to say that Jump units can Jump over minefields without effect but are affected as normal if they end their movement in a minefield?



#6 Wolfscout

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 07:18 AM

I really think that everyone is overthinking the movement of vehicles that take up 2 spaces. What I've been doing (and I could be wrong) is measuring from the front square. So if I want to turn the vehicle, I wing hte back end up to the opposite direction I want to go, and move FORWARD only. 



#7 Loophole Master

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 05:02 PM

Wolfscout said:

I really think that everyone is overthinking the movement of vehicles that take up 2 spaces.

We're not overthinking it, we're just thinking about it, something that the publisher doesn't seem to have done.



#8 ??!

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 10:43 PM

On a related note: Are the new SSU walkers really that useful? Okay, they can repair themselves, that's a nice ability to have. But it's also an ability that those walkers desperately need because they need to get close to the enemy if they actually want to enter battle. Their other engineering and salvage abilities just aren't going to have an impact on the game in my opinion. I actually like the Maksim because it is very cheap, but all the others could be exchanged for one of the "normal" SSU walkers as they have about the same point cost.



#9 Major Mishap

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 10:58 PM

Can't see me ever using the KV repair mechs in normal games as we don't use a point system to determine a winner and none of the KV47's hardly ever get to range one anyway.  Their only use is when you play a scenario involving bunkers and minefields, one of their abilities should be to repair other vehicles which might make them a bit more useful for games.



#10 GraniteGreysock

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 09:47 AM

"CHEAT DEATH: Not sure what to think about this one, either. It’s basically Heroic Attack, but it doesn’t always work, and when it does work, it only protects you from a single attack?

That doesn’t seem that great. However, it seems like Sergeant Victory can use this while piloting a vehicle, which does seem intriguing."

 

i actually think its pretty decent.  on the first attact against the unit with the cheat death skill, you allocate 3 wounds on a 4 wound hero, and hope you roll the Cheat Death…if not, its still 3 wounds  leaving hero alive,….next attact against the same squad, you allocate ALL wounds on the hero, and if you roll the Cheat death, AWESOME, if you dont, oh well, you only lost a hero with one wound….

 

its not at Iron clad as heroic Attack, but it definitely will annoy people…



#11 Major Mishap

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 10:02 AM

GraniteGreysock said:

"CHEAT DEATH: Not sure what to think about this one, either. It’s basically Heroic Attack, but it doesn’t always work, and when it does work, it only protects you from a single attack?

That doesn’t seem that great. However, it seems like Sergeant Victory can use this while piloting a vehicle, which does seem intriguing."

 

i actually think its pretty decent.  on the first attact against the unit with the cheat death skill, you allocate 3 wounds on a 4 wound hero, and hope you roll the Cheat Death…if not, its still 3 wounds  leaving hero alive,….next attact against the same squad, you allocate ALL wounds on the hero, and if you roll the Cheat death, AWESOME, if you dont, oh well, you only lost a hero with one wound….

 

its not at Iron clad as heroic Attack, but it definitely will annoy people…

If a model only has one wound left, you can only allocate 1 hit on him.



#12 mgentile7

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 03:11 PM

It would seem with all the additional rules out in different booklets its time for a singular rule book. Just a suggestion.



#13 Major Mishap

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 09:16 PM

Yes, time for a full rulebook with all rules in it even those (like bunkers) yet to be released.  It's a pain in the but having to go through several books to find something.  Also, get it out to the public before printing to correct all the errors and silly rules.



#14 Kriegschatten

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 07:47 AM

Yes, a "Re-revised Core Rule Book" would be nice at this point.

Currently, I just print out all of the relevant rules sections from the various books and keep them together in a single binder.  Finding things usually isn't too difficult, but having, for example, all of the skills in a single alphbetical list would be nice.






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