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First Session, didn't realize how deadly combat can be.


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#1 Azai

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 03:28 PM

When playing our first session I didn't actually realize that there is no skill used as an opposed check when dealing with ranged combat.  More realistic, and I kinda of like it but also really deadly.

I know cover and situational things can be added to increase or decrease the difficult but I am looking for something more. And the dodge talent also effects this.

Perhaps I am missing something, but as far as I can tell this is the case.

So I am wondering if anyone has come up with house rules to adjust this? Just to give some other options if all the players don't enjoy this too much, or as a reward as the player gets more powerful.



#2 aljovin

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 04:24 PM

You must be doing  something wrong, none of my PC got anywhere near being badly hurt. Did you add the purple dices to the mix? Sounds like there is a misinterpretation in the rules for the combat to be deadly or you put way too many foes. 



#3 aljovin

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 04:25 PM

Just remember, do you remove the soak value from the damages? This is for each hit. 



#4 awayputurwpn

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 06:14 PM

Per the Beta Updates, combat checks are not opposed checks, period. So while Ranged combat skills aren't resolved as opposed checks, neither are melee skills. 

Encourage your players to take cover and/or aim when appropriate. Also consider having them assist one another on checks. 

Above all, if a fight isn't going well, it's OKAY to run :) Let them know that combat is supposed to be dangerous, and maybe after a session or two have them come across some useful armor that might increase their Soak by 1 or 2….or possibly give them a blaster with a higher damage output. 

Never have an encounter that MUST be won by combat. Allow skilfull diversions, creative interaction with the environment; and above all, allow the players to play to their strengths. If you do all this and still they are getting taken apart, scale your threats back a bit :)

But as aljovin said, you might want to make sure you're following the combat rules correctly.



#5 Azai

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 09:11 AM

My players managed fine, as soon as they and I realized this they adjusted and none of them got hurt that badly.

For my group and I it isn't so much that combat is going to be very deadly, it is more that I want to provide the possiblity to have player skill influence their ability to be hit in combat.  Later after a few campaigns I want my players to be able to get certain characters powerful enough to pull off fun things like being a one person army if they desire.  With these rules it seems like that might not be a possiblity.

With the updates was there a reasoning for melee combat not to be opposed checks?  Was it too hard to hit or be hit?

For a solution for my dilema I was thinking of having half of the person's agility to be added to difficulty to be hit in combat, and probably for the melee I will just revert it back to opposed checks.  I was just wondering if anyone tackled this issue with personal house rules.

The thing is I do like the way it works for my group starting out, so if someone whips out a blaster on them they have to think twice before just charging forward.  That they might not be able to steam roll everything.  Though at the same time after a long time playing I want them to have the ability to steam roll if they so desire.  (It is all about us having fun anyways)



#6 Donovan Morningfire

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 09:25 AM

As others have suggested, be sure to check out the Week 11 Update (which has all the necessary updates from the prior weeks).

Combat runs quite a bit differently than described under the Skills chapter, namely ranged attacks have a set dificulty based upon how far away from the target the shooter is, and melee attacks have a set difficulty.

Also, damage values were dropped, particularly vibro-weapons, so that might reduce the perceived lethality of the system.

Plus, don't forget that Soak Value reduces the damage total before it gets applied to the target's Wound Threshold.  I've seen a few folks make that mistake, players and GMs alike.

Lastly, just becuase a PC is pushed over their Wound Threshold doesn't mean they're dead.  It just means they've been beaten or blasted into unconsciousness, and have a lingering injury to show for it.  A PC in this game only truly "dies" when they suffer a 150+ result on the Critical Injury chart, which on average is going to require a lot of punishment, particularly if using weapons that lack the Vicious quality and/or don't have an absurdly low Crit Rating, such as is the case with most blaster weapons.  PCs (and Nemesis-tier NPCs) can actually suffer up to double their Wound Threshold and not die, with any excess damage simply being ignored past that point (other than the target suffering yet another critical injury).

All that said, combat in this game is dangerous, and most PCs are well-advised to at least pick up a set of heavy clothing (compariable to what Han was wearing for most of the Original Trilogy), as it provides a very useful +1 bonus to their Soak Value, giving even a Brawn 2 character a final Soak Value of 3.  And knowing when to fold can be useful to.  After all, Han and Leia surrendered without much preamble when Palpatine's trap was sprung on Endor, same with the Imperials that were escorting Leia and Chewie to Vader's shuttle in ESB when Lando sprung his little alteration to Vader's deal.  Hell, Han very quickly turned tail and ran away as fast as he could once the stormies he was chasing on board the Death Star came to realize it was just one man (I much prefer the pre-Special Edition version of that scene).  And like Obi-Wan said, there are alternatives to fighting, so be sure that your players have options beyond fighting to deal with a problem; this ain't AD&D where you really only get XP for killing the monsters.  In fact, in the latest Order 66 podcast, Sam Witwer gives an excellent example of his PCs pretty much bluffing their way right past a major encounter with nary a shot fired, leaving the intended enemy scratching his head and wondering what the frak just happened.


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#7 Donovan Morningfire

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 09:29 AM

Azai said:

With the updates was there a reasoning for melee combat not to be opposed checks?  Was it too hard to hit or be hit?

It was ultimately decided that it was an unncessary additional step, and that a flat difficulty made the game run faster and smoother.

Check up in the Game Mechanics section, as there were a few threads with people who wanted a much more complicated system tossing around ideas about how to acheive that if you're interested.


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#8 Sturn

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 04:02 PM

I completely agree that there should be a flat difficulty for ranged combat. I don't imagine it's possible to get good at dodging blaster fire just like you can't really dodge bullets.

I DO think melee difficulty should somehow be based on the target's Melee or Brawl skill. If I'm trying to gut a person with a sword, his skill with his own sword is going to make it much more difficult.

Has defender skill based melee difficulty been discussed already and I missed it? Upgrading or downgrading the 2 die difficulty of melee based upon the defender's Melee/Brawl could be an easy house rule. Or maybe 1 difficulty die plus 1 per skill point in Melee/Brawl, maximum of 4?



#9 Kallabecca

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 06:44 PM

Look in the Talents. There are a number of Talents that either add Setback dice or increase the Difficulty of being hit in combat (like Bodyguard, Dodge, etc…).






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