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Tribal Support


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#1 superradjoe

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 04:24 PM

Can you use Tribal Support's ability without an Ewok in your discard pile?

Card text: "After you refresh, discard 1 card from your hand to return an Ewok unit from your discard pile to your hand."



#2 dbmeboy

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 04:35 PM

I really want to say "no, you can't do that," but I'm not seeing anything in the rules that would prevent it.  The rules specify that cards that use the term "target" must have a valid target to be used, but Tribal Support does not, so go ahead and use it for an extra discard.



#3 Surge1000

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 06:13 PM

superradjoe said:

Can you use Tribal Support's ability without an Ewok in your discard pile?

Card text: "After you refresh, discard 1 card from your hand to return an Ewok unit from your discard pile to your hand."

 

Clever maneuver, and I agree with what dbmeboy said.  If the Tribal Support reaction ability required you to target an Ewok in your discard pile, you would not be able to use the ability (see Target on page 27).  However, it does not, so you'd discard a card from your hand (basically, the cost of the ability) but then the effect (return an Ewok unit from your discard pile to your hand) would be cancelled because there is no appropriate unit to return.

 

It's a decent question to e-mail to FFG though.  I'm basing my answer on the rules for targeting on page 27 and how essentially every CCG/TCG I've ever played handles the same scenario.

 

 



#4 TGO

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 06:16 PM

Isn't the Ewok card in the discard pile the target or does it need to specifically say "Target Ewok card in your graveyard" just wondering myself?



#5 Surge1000

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 06:43 PM

TGO said:

 

Isn't the Ewok card in the discard pile the target or does it need to specifically say "Target Ewok card in your graveyard" just wondering myself?

 

 

 

Short answer:  The card or ability would have to specify that you must target something in order for it to be precluded from being played if that something does not exist.

 

 

Longer answer:

How most similar games handle that question (and this game seems to as well based on the targeting rules on page 27) is that if a card or ability requires you to target something, the existence of that something is a condition that is checked when trying to play said card or ability.  "Target X" is treated as a qualifier.  It is a very specific mechanic/condition, and it is similar in most CCGs/TCGs.  However, effects of a card may simply fail to occur if once the card tries to resolve, there is no legal object for it to affect.  In the case of Tribal Support, the reaction does not require you to target anything.  Therefore, if you choose to activate the reaction on Tribal Support without an Ewok unit in your discard pile, you discard a card (essentially a cost to use the ability), but the effect fails to resolve.

 

Again, I'm basing my answer on years of CCG/TCG/LCG experience and the limited discussion available in the rulebook, so by all means, please submit the question to FFG.  But if I were a betting man, I'd bet the house on my answer.



#6 dbmeboy

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 10:58 PM

I based my answer (that it had to use the word "target" to require an available target to work) on the definition of Target from pg 27.  Target is a specifically defined game term, so not using the term means not using the rules that go with it.  But I did go ahead and submit a question because this feels like one they might errata the card to say "target" on.



#7 superradjoe

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 01:07 PM

I emailed FFG to see what their response will be.  Thanks for the input everyone, if this is the case one of my favorite objective sets just became better!



#8 superradjoe

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 06:51 PM

Got a response from Nate French saying "We'll answer it eventually but wait for the FAQ!"  What if I want to play a game before then?  LOL



#9 stormwolf27

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 10:49 PM

superradjoe said:

Got a response from Nate French saying "We'll answer it eventually but wait for the FAQ!"  What if I want to play a game before then?  LOL

When a game is this new, that's usually the response most people get for this stuff. It's how they compile the FAQ in the first place. It sucks, but those with patience are soon rewarded. :-P


"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka


#10 Toqtamish

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 12:22 AM

Same response I got on two emails this week. 



#11 Francisco G.

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 02:49 AM

If this qualifiy as targeting and ewok with the wording that it got, then they will probably rule it similar to AGOT (one of the other LCGs) and then you cannot trigger the reaction if you don't have a valid target in the discard pile.



#12 Surge1000

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 04:00 PM

Francisco G. said:

If this qualifiy as targeting and ewok with the wording that it got, then they will probably rule it similar to AGOT (one of the other LCGs) and then you cannot trigger the reaction if you don't have a valid target in the discard pile.

 

You're right in that IF the effect on Tribal Support qualifies as targeting, then it couldn't be used without an Ewok in the discard pile.  But I can't see why they'd so specifically define the word target in the rulebook, use it consistently on the cards in the core set the way they defined, only to in the end say, "well yeah, that card too, even though it doesn't say so."

 

But it could happen.  This is a new game with possible changes aplenty coming in the FAQ/revision of the rules.






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