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#1 wildefox

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 01:28 PM

So, I picked up the rulebook and DM kit for this game and am currently very enthusiastic about it, but I have one reservation. Since the game is very combat orientated, in order to provide an optimal (or even just adequate) play experience will I need to purchase miniatures? I am aware that miniatures are never really strictly necessary per se, and most things can be handled via theater of the mind, but I would like to hear from some people who have actually played the game whether or not this is really a viable option.



#2 MILLANDSON

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 01:44 PM

I've never used miniatures for combat in RPGs, including with Only War, and I've been playing it for [REDACTED - period of time] before the open beta, and I've pretty much constantly had a campaign of it going since then.

The only reason you'd need to buy miniatures is if you wanted to buy them.


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#3 Radwraith

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 06:49 PM

I use Mini's in my game when we have close quarters combat. If one is playing at longer ranges (Beyond about 30 meters) they aren't really practical.



#4 Frankie

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 07:43 PM

I play online so we use tokens. You could probably print some out if you don't have your own.

 

However, WHRP the system isn't like D&D where positioning can be extremely important.

 

Now, positioning can matter, but not so much. Pretty much, the GM will need to constantly tell you the range of you from your enemies/allies and note it down if you don't use tokens but don't want to handwave out range all together. I know one GM who does that and it works fine, although it can get confusing sometimes.



#5 ramza82

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 03:06 AM

It would be nice if FF would support their RPG's by releasing a 40k miniature line for their rpg's. Forgeworld's hediously overpriced mini's are not an option. It boggels my mind why GW keeps the hobby from growing by keeping their prices so high that it will never amoung to anything more than a niche market.

You could also use paper markers. Just find a image you like,  print it on a strip of paper. Fold it over and you have a paper marker.



#6 MILLANDSON

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 03:37 AM

ramza82 said:

It would be nice if FF would support their RPG's by releasing a 40k miniature line for their rpg's. Forgeworld's hediously overpriced mini's are not an option. It boggels my mind why GW keeps the hobby from growing by keeping their prices so high that it will never amoung to anything more than a niche market.

You could also use paper markers. Just find a image you like,  print it on a strip of paper. Fold it over and you have a paper marker.

FFG aren't allowed to release 40k models - it's not part of the license agreement, and would compete with GW's model lines, and so won't ever happen.


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#7 ramza82

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 03:55 AM

If they had a line that was for the RPG and not TT legal then they could. I will never EVER pay $40 for squad of GW IG. But if they offered a cheap alternative like DnD/Pathfinder where you can buy individual mini's for $5-6 then I'd gladly get behind that.



#8 narked

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 04:04 AM

No, they couldn't. They aren't licensed to produce miniatures based on GW IP, so doing so would just be a quick way to end up in court and/or lose the license.



#9 ramza82

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 04:51 AM

Thank you for being so obtuse. You think I dont understand how liscening works? I'm saying this is an idea that FFG should approach GW on, or atleast brought up when they were in talks to work on Only War, in order to increase their RPG's market penetration. The better the games do, the better the IP does. Just because they arent liscened to make GW mini's now, doesnt mean that it couldn't change down the road. If GW could be convinced that i would be profitable for them do to so.

Hell GW could do it themselves, as long as you could buy individual mini's and they price was comparable to other minis.



#10 ramza82

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 04:53 AM

Thank you for being so obtuse. You think I dont understand how liscening works? I'm saying this is an idea that FFG should approach GW on, or atleast brought up when they were in talks to work on Only War, in order to increase their RPG's market penetration. The better the games do, the better the IP does. Just because they arent liscened to make GW mini's now, doesnt mean that it couldn't change down the road. If GW could be convinced that i would be profitable for them do to so.

Hell GW could do it themselves, as long as you could buy individual mini's and they price was comparable to other minis.

I've known/know lots of people who were interested in 40k, just not the product model that GW uses, requiring people to pay hundreds of dollars to assemble a small army.



#11 MILLANDSON

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 05:43 AM

GW vetoed the idea of FFG being able to make any miniatures way back when with Dark Heresy - it's not even on the table, it just won't happen.

You don't seem to realise quite how protective GW is over their miniature-making exclusivity. If FFG made models, a lot more people, for the RPG, would buy them, rather than buying GW models, which loses GW money. For that reason alone, if you ever want official 40k models, you'll have to go through GW. There are other miniature manufacturers, however, that make models that would fit in with the 40k feel.


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#12 illathid

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 07:20 AM

Yeah, if I recall correctly GW's miniature policy is why the figures for the "Relic" boardgame are just busts and why the Special Characters in the "Horus Heresy" boardgame are only cardboard cut outs.  



#13 LuciusT

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 08:37 AM

ramza82 said:

Hell GW could do it themselves, as long as you could buy individual mini's and they price was comparable to other minis.

Argueably GW does do this… you can get Imperial Guard, Space Marine, Inquisitor and even Chaos Heretic models from their 40K ranges with Necromunda and the various Forge World lines covering most of the character types not covered in some form by 40k. The only thing lacking IMO are female human models who don't look like pin-up girls or refugees from a fetish-wear convention.

Personally, having given up on the TT game since the price of codexes jumped, the only 40K mini buying I will be doing is support of my 40K RP games. I'm just hoping they'll release a multipart chaos renegades kit soon.



#14 LuciusT

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 08:42 AM

wildefox said:

So, I picked up the rulebook and DM kit for this game and am currently very enthusiastic about it, but I have one reservation. Since the game is very combat orientated, in order to provide an optimal (or even just adequate) play experience will I need to purchase miniatures? I am aware that miniatures are never really strictly necessary per se, and most things can be handled via theater of the mind, but I would like to hear from some people who have actually played the game whether or not this is really a viable option.

I've run an Imperial Guard based game back in the Dark Heresy days and I've tried it both with minis and without. For "without" I tend to use a white-board and dry erase markers to roughly sketch out where everyone is in combat scenes. 

My experience of it, and I'm wondering if other people have had the same experience, is that with mini's the combat scene becomes almost boardgame like, with a lot of "how many squares can I move" and "can I maneover one square closer to get a better range modifier," while the whiteboard method lends itself to more narrative play with ranges and movement being less firmly defined.



#15 ramza82

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 10:24 AM

To my knowledge you can't buy basic individual models. If everyone only ever wanted to play a guardsman. then I might buy a trooper box. But there are 12 different classes to choose from.  They make nice mini's but their prices are outragous.



#16 Adeptus-B

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 12:49 PM

Since I was a 40K miniature collector way before any WH40KRP games came out, I almost always use figs to play out any signifigant combat (the exception being things like sneaking up behind a lone sentry to 'silence' him). If you have plenty of figs (both PCs and- the real expense- adversaries; lots and lots of adversaries) and terrain to use, they can add an extra level of fun and visual impact, and sometimes inspire tactics that the players wouldn't otherwise think of without being able to 'see' the battlefield and the relative possitions of all combatants. I'll take the word of everyone else about them not being absolutely necessary, but I enjoy busting them out…

If you do decide to use minis, one bit of advice: the 'standard' scale of 1 inch = 1 meter makes it too easy for combat to spill off the table. I usually go with 1/2 inch = 1 meter, or even 1 cm = 1 meter for long-range firefights.



#17 Adeptus-B

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 12:55 PM

Ignore- double post.

-Didn't there used to be a 'delete' option…?



#18 Radwraith

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 09:24 PM

ramza82 said:

If they had a line that was for the RPG and not TT legal then they could. I will never EVER pay $40 for squad of GW IG. But if they offered a cheap alternative like DnD/Pathfinder where you can buy individual mini's for $5-6 then I'd gladly get behind that.

You need not shoulder that burden individually! If you have a group of 5 players (Fairly standard) you could each chip in to buy said squad. It would cost you $29.00 through the GW website (NOT $40). That gives each of you a character and their comrade for approx. $6.00 apiece. You could also check out Ebay as their are often whole IG armies going for quite a bit less than their new price. Some are even VERY well painted!



#19 Lynata

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 04:43 AM

Of course, that'd likely be just a couple Cadians … unless you get lucky and find an offer for one of the metal regiments on ebay!

My group/s only ever used maps, marking people's positions with pencils, or using some sort of token. This is what I would recommend, as it seems like a good compromise between people not knowing what's going on and meticulously marking every single step of a character. With maps, you can make sure that everyone has an understanding of the rough appearance of the battlefield and where their allies and enemies are located, leaving the details up to their imagination. :)

The only time I ever used actual minis was in a short campaign of Saga Edition Star Wars, and though that was pretty fun I still would have never considered it a true necessity.


current 40k RPG character: Aura Vashaan, Astromancer Witch-Priestess
previous characters: Captain Elias (Celestial Lions Chapter), Comrade-Trooper Dasha Malenko (1207th Valhallan Ice Warriors), Sister Elana (Order of the Sacred Rose), Leftenant Darion Baylesworth (Rogue Trader Artemisia)




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