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triggered responces etc


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#1 alextrigw

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 12:33 PM

hi i wanted to ask if i can stop and opponent from stealthing my chars with bowl of brown and what abilities can brienne of tarth ( the stark and baratheon one) cancel. tnx a lot!



#2 ktom

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 02:31 PM

The technical definition: A triggered effect is one that only happens because a player specifically chooses for it to happen by activating a card, effect, etc.

The short-hand version: If there is a bold timing word in front of the effect that tells you when you can play it (e.g., "Challenges," "Any Phase," "Response," etc.), it is a triggered effect.



#3 Khudzlin

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 08:35 PM

Another technical response: Brienne of Tarth (Princes of the Sun) doesn't cancel anything, she prevents player from triggering effects in the first place, which means even effects that cannot be cancelled (like Ambush or triggered Agenda abilities) are affected.



#4 alextrigw

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 11:12 PM

hm ok i think i get it but what about stealth? its a trait but still a player has to chose to use it right?



#5 alextrigw

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 11:15 PM

sry to act like a noob but i had some intesne fights with my friends so i wanan be really sure:P for exaple could u plz tell me which card effects can still be used if someone revealed the buring bridges plot card? tnx a lot!



#6 stormwolf27

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 12:28 AM

alextrigw said:

sry to act like a noob but i had some intesne fights with my friends so i wanan be really sure:P for exaple could u plz tell me which card effects can still be used if someone revealed the buring bridges plot card? tnx a lot!

Events, bring out of shadows effects (like Meera Reed, Sorrowful Man, Pyromancer's Apprentice, etc.), keywords (Vigilant, Vengeful, Ambush, etc), jump-in effects (Catelyn Stark (LoW), Khal Drogo, etc.), passives (text on cards not preceded by bold text denoting Challenges:, Any Phase:, Marshalling:, etc. on cards in play… basically any effect that doesn't come from a location, character, or location that is already in play, or, if it is in play, abilties that aren't preempted by the aforementioned bold text.


"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka


#7 ktom

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 02:46 AM

alextrigw said:

hm ok i think i get it but what about stealth? its a trait but still a player has to chose to use it right?

Stealth is a keyword, not a trait. While not an important distinction for this question, there is a difference in the game, so I thought I'd point it out.

Stealth is considered passive. If there is an attacking character (or characters) in the challenge have it, it initiated - as part of the framework of the game - whether any player wants it to or not. You cannot refuse to initiate Stealth when an attacker has the keyword, so it is considered passive.

Now, it does get a little confusing for some people because once Stealth initiates, the attacking player has to choose targets for it, and "no target" is an acceptable choice for the effect. So the result ends up being no practical resolution. However, don't confuse the fact that you can choose "no target " after Stealth initiates with choosing to initiate the effect in the first place. If it hadn't initiated, you would not have been in the position to choose a target.

Stealth does not meet the definition of "triggered effect" in that no player chooses to initiate it. That happens whether anyone wants it to or not. Stealth is a little different from other passive effects, though, in that once initiated, a player can manipulate the resolution so that it's initiation means little to nothing.

 

Knowing what can and can't be triggered for Burning Bridges is actually not particularly helpful for defining "triggered effect" because it only stops you from triggering effects that are printed on a card that is already in play. So events, for example, are always triggered effects (but not stopped by Burning Bridges).



#8 alextrigw

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 04:01 AM

tnx a alot some last specific question to be sure i got it right so if i attach bowl of brown to a character with stealth he cant use it, if i attach it to Pyat Pree he cant kill my characters and something else can i play dragons with ambush whenerver i want as an attachment to a dragon already in play as a save or only in marshaling phase?



#9 alextrigw

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 06:07 AM

a ok about stealth got it now! one last thing siege of winterfell says that i cant claim power but when so i cant claim power through unopossed but when i win a power chalenge i move power form the oponents house card to mine and move isnt the same as claiming right?



#10 Khudzlin

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 12:47 PM

As the FAQ says, moving power isn't the same as claiming it. The phrase "claim power for your House" has a precise meaning which excludes moving power from one card to another and characters claiming power (like Renown).



#11 alextrigw

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 11:48 PM

so plz anwser me with yes or no cause my friend is a retard…. if i win a power challenge while using siege of winterfell agenda do i move power from my opponent?



#12 -Istaril

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 01:35 AM

Seige of winterfell lets you "move" power (which is what happens after a power challenge). So yes, you win a power challenge, you take X power (where X is the claim of your plot) and move it to your house card. You do NOT get an unopposed bonus (even if he didn't block), because that is "claiming" power and specifically prevented by the agenda.


This is explained explicitly in the FAQ.



#13 stormwolf27

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 06:29 PM

alextrigw said:

tnx a alot some last specific question to be sure i got it right so if i attach bowl of brown to a character with stealth he cant use it, if i attach it to Pyat Pree he cant kill my characters and something else can i play dragons with ambush whenerver i want as an attachment to a dragon already in play as a save or only in marshaling phase?

Unfortunately incorrect. Stealth and Pyat Pree's ability are passives (stealth being a keyword and not a character ability anyway). Bowl of Brown specifically keeps characters from "triggering" abilities. Triggered abilities are things preempted by bold text denoting Response:, Any Phase:, Challenges:, etc.

So, he can still stealth your characters, and can still use Pyat's passive claim replacement text.

You can only play dupes during marshalling, and you don't have to pay the cost for them. Not sure about using a player action window before claim to ambush in a dragon dupe before claim, though…. never seen it used that way.  Closest I've seen is core Rhaegal's ability to spend a gold and search your deck for a dupe to attach to him as a player action. Note, though, you would have to do it in a player action window, before the challenge resolution framework starts.


"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka


#14 ktom

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 08:49 AM

stormwolf27 said:

Note, though, you would have to do it in a player action window, before the challenge resolution framework starts.
These stipulations are true. The underlying premise - that Ambush is a "put into play" effect and that you may use "put into play" effects on copies of unique characters that you already have in play and have them enter play as dupes on the original copy - is also true.



#15 DubiousYak

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 04:21 AM

ktom said:

alextrigw said:

hm ok i think i get it but what about stealth? its a trait but still a player has to chose to use it right?

Stealth is a keyword, not a trait. While not an important distinction for this question, there is a difference in the game, so I thought I'd point it out.

Stealth is considered passive. If there is an attacking character (or characters) in the challenge have it, it initiated - as part of the framework of the game - whether any player wants it to or not. You cannot refuse to initiate Stealth when an attacker has the keyword, so it is considered passive.

Now, it does get a little confusing for some people because once Stealth initiates, the attacking player has to choose targets for it, and "no target" is an acceptable choice for the effect. So the result ends up being no practical resolution. However, don't confuse the fact that you can choose "no target " after Stealth initiates with choosing to initiate the effect in the first place. If it hadn't initiated, you would not have been in the position to choose a target.

Wow, does this means that you can't "forget" to declare stealth then?  As a passive, it is both parties responsibility to make sure it resolves?



#16 Bomb

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 06:27 AM

DubiousYak said:

ktom said:

 

alextrigw said:

hm ok i think i get it but what about stealth? its a trait but still a player has to chose to use it right?

Stealth is a keyword, not a trait. While not an important distinction for this question, there is a difference in the game, so I thought I'd point it out.

Stealth is considered passive. If there is an attacking character (or characters) in the challenge have it, it initiated - as part of the framework of the game - whether any player wants it to or not. You cannot refuse to initiate Stealth when an attacker has the keyword, so it is considered passive.

Now, it does get a little confusing for some people because once Stealth initiates, the attacking player has to choose targets for it, and "no target" is an acceptable choice for the effect. So the result ends up being no practical resolution. However, don't confuse the fact that you can choose "no target " after Stealth initiates with choosing to initiate the effect in the first place. If it hadn't initiated, you would not have been in the position to choose a target.

 

 

Wow, does this means that you can't "forget" to declare stealth then?  As a passive, it is both parties responsibility to make sure it resolves?

You must be allowed an opportunity to declare stealth, but you don't have to select any stealth targets.  The opportunity to declare stealth initiates no matter what. 

Are you asking if the defender has to remind the attacker they have Stealth characters?  I suppose you should as proper ettiquette, although I feel like asking "are you doing anything before I declare defenders?" is a reasonable question instead of reminding them they have specific options that may damage you.  "Stealth?" is always the right question to ask though.



#17 ktom

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 08:04 AM

DubiousYak said:

Wow, does this means that you can't "forget" to declare stealth then?  As a passive, it is both parties responsibility to make sure it resolves?
Correct. "Forgetting" Stealth would need to be a mutual mistake - similar to the way that Renown and Deadly is the responsibility of everyone to resolve. Of course, mutual mistakes do happen, so be careful about "it's your fault for not reminding me" arguments. 

It is a little sticky in that while the choice of Stealth targets has to happen, the attacker can choose "no target." As Bomb says, most TOs and judges will take "do you have anything before I declare defenders" (instead of "don't forget to stealth with that attacker") as reminder enough on the part of the defender.






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