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#1 Sass

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 01:50 AM

If I am reading the card right Boost can NOT save a ship that's base is particaly off the map, but would otherwise be on in full after the boost ?



#2 Carist

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 03:29 AM

Right.  The check happens after you execute a maneuver, before you are able to take an action.



#3 jetsetter

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 04:20 AM

Also, if your movement takes you off the map and then back on…it counts as being destroyed. 

Still fairly new to the game…but that's how I understand that situation.

 

~Ron



#4 Gravis

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 04:57 AM

jetsetter said:

Also, if your movement takes you off the map and then back on…it counts as being destroyed. 

 

Just like with obstacles.  If the maneuver template or the base (at the end of the movement) overlap the edge of the map, you have fled the battle.  So do not consider the width of the base until the ship has completed its movement.



#5 SEWeed

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 05:36 AM

Page 17, of the Core Rule book states:

"Fleeing the Battlefield"

 

If a ship executes a maneuver that causes any part
of its base to go outside the play area (beyond any
edge), then that ship has fled the battlefield. Unless
specified by a mission overview, ships that flee the
battlefield are immediately destroyed.
 
 
 
I am reading this that it doesn't matter when or where the ship ends up. If a part of the base leaves the map border, then the entire ship is out.
 
 


#6 magadizer

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 06:38 AM

I think this is going to need clarification on the next FAQ, because people are persistently interpreting it two different ways. If you strictly read the rules for movement, then you should not worry about the placement of the maneuver template, but only where the ship's BASE ends up at the end of the movement. This discussion has been held here before, and i'm sure will again. (There's another thread about it currently on BGG in the rules subforum too.)

The rules for "Fleeing the Battlefield" are worded differently than the rules for overlapping obstacles, so you should not say that they are the same situation. The obstacles rule specifically mentions the maneuver template while the edge of map rule does not.


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#7 magadizer

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 06:41 AM

That being said, and to answer the original question, I don't think it's possible to end up back on the map with a Boost action if you would otherwise be off of it. Additionally, since boost is an action taken after your maneuver is completed, you would already have left the battlefield if your ship is hanging off the edge, before you get a chance to boost. If you are just very close to the edge, then it will depend on your next maneuver turn whether or not you can get back into the battlefield.


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#8 Carist

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 07:15 AM

magadizer said:

I think this is going to need clarification on the next FAQ, because people are persistently interpreting it two different ways. If you strictly read the rules for movement, then you should not worry about the placement of the maneuver template, but only where the ship's BASE ends up at the end of the movement. This discussion has been held here before, and i'm sure will again. (There's another thread about it currently on BGG in the rules subforum too.)

The rules for "Fleeing the Battlefield" are worded differently than the rules for overlapping obstacles, so you should not say that they are the same situation. The obstacles rule specifically mentions the maneuver template while the edge of map rule does not.

 

 

I agree with all of this, especially with needing to get an official ruling.  

 

The rulebook doesn't say anything about the maneuver template going off the edge, so it shouldn't matter.  But then I read this question in the FAQ:

 

 
 
Q: When a ship must flee off one indicated 
edge of the play area, is it required to 
flee off that edge exclusively?
 
 
A: Yes. If a ship’s base extends beyond two edges 
of the play area at the same time, the ship 
is destroyed instead of fleeing successfully. 
Additionally, if the ship’s maneuver template 
extends over a corner of the play area, the ship is 
destroyed instead of fleeing successfully.
 
 
In that instance, the maneuver template does matter, and your ship is destroyed, even if your ship ends up in the proper area.  This makes me think maybe you are supposed to take the maneuver template into account when going off the edge of the play area.  
 
 
Although, with the way it is worded right now, until we get an official ruling saying otherwise, I would rule that only the ship's base matters when determining whether or not a ship had fled the battlefield.
 


#9 DailyRich

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 07:22 AM

The movement rules state:

3. Execute Maneuver: Holding the template 
firmly in place, grip the side walls of the base 
and lift the ship off the play surface. Then place 
the ship at the opposite end of the template, 
sliding the rear guides of the ship into the 
opposite end of the template.
 

Your ship doesn't actually move along the template, it's placed at the end of it.  So as long as your ship ends up entirely in the game area after the maneuver, I would say it doesn't matter if the template goes over the edge.

In addition, there's this in the FAQ (bolded text here is also bolded there):

Q: Can overlapping other ships cause the 
active ship to flee the battlefield?
A: Yes. If any part of the ship’s base in its final 
position (after moving backward) is outside the 
play area, then the ship has fled the battlefield.
 
As for the FAQ mentioned below about fleeing as part of a mission, it seems to be referring to a specific situation (that of a fleeing ship's template crossing a corner) rather than a general rule.
 
That said, I'd be fine with either interpretation.


#10 magadizer

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 07:57 AM

I'm also OK with either ruling as long as it is clear and obvious to everyone. I think it's clear as written, but with the number of times this comes up for discussion it obviously has to be spelled out better.

I do prefer the idea that the template doesn't matter, because I like those close to the edge (over the edge with the template) moves being possible.


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#11 dvang

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 11:26 AM


Carist said:


magadizer said:



 


I think this is going to need clarification on the next FAQ, because people are persistently interpreting it two different ways. If you strictly read the rules for movement, then you should not worry about the placement of the maneuver template, but only where the ship's BASE ends up at the end of the movement. This discussion has been held here before, and i'm sure will again. (There's another thread about it currently on BGG in the rules subforum too.)


The rules for "Fleeing the Battlefield" are worded differently than the rules for overlapping obstacles, so you should not say that they are the same situation. The obstacles rule specifically mentions the maneuver template while the edge of map rule does not.


 


 


 


 


I agree with all of this, especially with needing to get an official ruling.  


 


The rulebook doesn't say anything about the maneuver template going off the edge, so it shouldn't matter.  But then I read this question in the FAQ:


 


 

 

Q: When a ship must flee off one indicated 

edge of the play area, is it required to 

flee off that edge exclusively?

 

 

A: Yes. If a ship’s base extends beyond two edges 

of the play area at the same time, the ship 

is destroyed instead of fleeing successfully. 

Additionally, if the ship’s maneuver template 

extends over a corner of the play area, the ship is 

destroyed instead of fleeing successfully.

 

 

In that instance, the maneuver template does matter, and your ship is destroyed, even if your ship ends up in the proper area.  This makes me think maybe you are supposed to take the maneuver template into account when going off the edge of the play area.  

 

 

Although, with the way it is worded right now, until we get an official ruling saying otherwise, I would rule that only the ship's base matters when determining whether or not a ship had fled the battlefield.

 



This response was specifically regarding missions where a ship flees off a table edge. The point of the mission is for a ship to exit the table. That is the difference, and in this instance it mentions moving off corners (which therefore means partially moving off a table edge that isn't the designated "flee" edge).  It is quite possible that fleeing is considered separate and different from standard movement, and so would have different rules. Just like moving over/through obstacles and moving out of the play areas currently have different rules.  Obstacles make templates matter, and play edges templates don't matter.



#12 ziggy2000

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 01:11 PM

jetsetter said:

Also, if your movement takes you off the map and then back on…it counts as being destroyed. 

Still fairly new to the game…but that's how I understand that situation.

 

~Ron

Gravis said:

jetsetter said:

 

Also, if your movement takes you off the map and then back on…it counts as being destroyed. 

 

 

 

Just like with obstacles.  If the maneuver template or the base (at the end of the movement) overlap the edge of the map, you have fled the battle.  So do not consider the width of the base until the ship has completed its movement.

These two statements are just flat out wrong. I had to call over the TO of a Kessel Run event I was playing in to override this common misconception.

Having said that, I would agree that there needs to be a clarification in the next FAQ because there is a discrepancy between the rules for the edge of the battlefield and obstacles. In the case of obstacles, the position of the movement template matters, but on the edge of the battlefield it does not. I could see it being ruled either way, but  I believe the RAW fall to the interpretation that it does not matter if the template crosses the edge of the battlefield, as long as the entire base is inside at the end of the movement.

I also agree with dvang that apparently standard movement and fleeing the battlefield are being treated differently.

And, to the OP's original question, add my agreement  that Boost cannot work in that situation, since movement must be successfully concluded before an action can be taken.

 



#13 Torresse

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 03:28 PM

Just to clarify incase any newbies walk in" Just like with obstacles.  If the maneuver template or the base (at the end of the movement) overlap the edge of the map, you have fled the battle.  So do not consider the width of the base until the ship has completed its movement.  " The part of this that is in question is if the template will kill you or not. I said it as soon as the FAQ was released that they should of put it in, but failed to. The part that is not in question is if you run your ship along the template to see if you clip any opsticals along the way. simply You use the width of the base only once youve landed on the other side of the template.

That is the only thing we are 100% clear on is wether it be opstical or edge, you only use the width of the ship at the end point. The thing that is in question is whether if your template crosses off the board if you die. 

In the Kessal run we played it the other way because of how sure two guys were and we didnt want to spend time to check the rules (neither of them knew the rules very well, so I dropped the ball on that part)


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#14 DailyRich

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 04:24 PM

I can see it mattering for obstacles because it represents you having to navigate around it.  There's no real obstacle to the edge of the board.  You're not potentially colliding with anything.



#15 Torresse

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 06:28 PM

DailyRich said:

I can see it mattering for obstacles because it represents you having to navigate around it.  There's no real obstacle to the edge of the board.  You're not potentially colliding with anything.

we have no idea if thats a super star destroyer, a giant astroid, or if we are in an arena where we have walls all around us


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#16 dvang

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 08:27 AM

Regardless, it is VERY clear in the rules.

The template DOES NOT matter when dealing with moving near/off the edge of the table. Only the ship base's final position matters.

The template DOES matter when dealing with obstacles. Both the template and the ship's base are checked.



#17 dbmeboy

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 11:34 AM

dvang said:

Regardless, it is VERY clear in the rules.

The template DOES NOT matter when dealing with moving near/off the edge of the table. Only the ship base's final position matters.

The template DOES matter when dealing with obstacles. Both the template and the ship's base are checked.

Clarification of your last statement: The template does matter when dealing with obstacles.  Both the template and the ship's base at its final position are checked.  You still do not move the ship along the template to check with obstacles.






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