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Comissar/Ministorum Priest armour?


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#1 whoseyes

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 12:36 AM

In the Specialist Equipment of the Comissar it says that they wear Commissar's Uniform. Does this mean that they don't have Flak vests/full body armours as the soldiers they fight along with? Are there specific stats for this Uniform in the book (I can't seem to find anything like this)?

The same happens with the Ministorum Priest, which specialist equipment entry specifies that wears Eccleasiarchy Robes.

 

How do you manage this? Some types of armour don't look "cool enough" on some characters, but are quite useful. The same applies to Space Marines and their helmets: it looks cool to be a space marine without a helmet, but it's kind of silly to expose yourself in that way to enemy fire.



#2 motyak

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 12:40 AM

I think they still have the flak vest from the basic equipment, they don't only have the items mentioned in specialist equipment.



#3 whoseyes

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 12:58 AM

motyak said:

I think they still have the flak vest from the basic equipment, they don't only have the items mentioned in specialist equipment.

 

That's true, and I can see them using a vest under the commissar uniform / robes, but what if the regimental equipment specifies that they have a full body flak (or even caparace)? Can they wear a full armour under their specialist clothes? 

I'm thinking about a Comissar with a helmet and his cool cap on it *sigh*



#4 motyak

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 01:03 AM

I really don't see why not. I mean, I know it isn't that relevant, but they can have carapace armour in the tabletop game. The 'uniform should be able to go over that.



#5 Plasmafest

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 01:24 AM

The Arbites Judges certainly manage to mix elaborate uniform with heavy armour. And one of the key parts of the Commissar's uniform is the official sash - that'll fit over any weight of armour.



#6 KommissarK

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 03:12 AM

In the Ciaphas Cain books, Commissar Cain at one point is issued carapace armour. For the rest of the books he often digs up the suit and wears it under his uniform, with no real issue.

I would say the helmet/hat is the only real matter, and even that, it would take a particularly cruel GM to punish a player's desire for mechanical protection and style for some artificial sense of "realism."

But yes, as others have said, everyone has armour as it is issued to them from their regimental gear, so not every class needs to list what armour it gets (in fact, most don't mention it).



#7 Rapier

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 07:21 AM

Rules for space marines without helments are included in Rites of Battle;

You lose the armour (obviously), but gain bonuses to leadership and command type abilities because leaders don't wear helmets in 40k.



#8 whoseyes

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 07:33 AM

Rapier said:

Rules for space marines without helments are included in Rites of Battle;

You lose the armour (obviously), but gain bonuses to leadership and command type abilities because leaders don't wear helmets in 40k.

 

Nice! Will try to check those rules, because I think that it's more realistic this way.

Thank you very much for the info!



#9 Kasatka

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 02:44 AM

Rapier said:

Rules for space marines without helments are included in Rites of Battle;

You lose the armour (obviously), but gain bonuses to leadership and command type abilities because leaders don't wear helmets in 40k.

Actually leaders do wear helmets - the tabletop wargame that GW makes their money from needs to distinguish important models and often the easiest way is to either have a more ornate helmet or no helmet at all.

Within the fluff and setting beyond the models themselves, its really only space marines (cause they are hardcore innit!) and rear-line commanders in armies (see the guard).


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#10 whoseyes

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 04:21 AM

Do you imagine Comissars wearing helmets?



#11 LuciusT

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 05:17 AM

whoseyes said:

 

Do you imagine Comissars wearing helmets?

 

 

I can imagine it… a huge, gilded carapace helm maybe with a horse-hair plume. 

 

Edit: Or better yet, one of those mirrored visor carapace helmets the Arbites wear.



#12 Frankie

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 07:24 AM

I'd do it like this:

 

If they have a carapace helmet, their hat is lined with carapace on the inside. If you have a flak helmet, the hat is made of flak or lined with it on the inside. Simple and lets them wear their cool hats IC.



#13 Lynata

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 08:08 AM

Dark Heresy had stats for the Commissar's uniform by giving it as an example for what a Flak Coat is. Of course, that's DH and it could be different for OW, but still it could be a good reference. I suppose the coat could be worn above even Carapace, although whether or not a Commissar would actually don such armour rather than sticking to his default Commissariat gear would be a matter of individual interpretation, depending on which sources the player would go by.


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previous characters: Captain Elias (Celestial Lions Chapter -- debriefed), Comrade-Trooper Dasha Malenko (1207th Valhallan Ice Warriors -- KIA), Sister Elana (Order of the Sacred Rose -- assassinated), Leftenant Darion Baylesworth (Rogue Trader Artemisia -- retired), Taleera "Raven" Nephran (Hive Ganger & Inquisitorial Assassin -- mindwiped)

#14 KommissarK

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 09:10 AM

whoseyes said:

Do you imagine Comissars wearing helmets?

Not realy, but I don't take away the protection either. Its too far down the simulationist side to maintain enjoyment.

Also, being so particular about a commissar being able to wear a helmet or not belies a desire to have enemies shoot at said unprotected area. Which I would say is largely unsporting and is only going to make a player resent the GM and resent his choice of PC.



#15 Lynata

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 12:14 PM

KommissarK said:

Also, being so particular about a commissar being able to wear a helmet or not belies a desire to have enemies shoot at said unprotected area.
Or just a desire to stick to a particular interpretation of the setting, which on the other hand would be quite okay.

It depends how the players feel about it. But I would agree that it'd be an unwise thing to enforce if the Commissar's player really wants to wear a helmet rather than a hat. Some players enjoy a more "simulationist" (closer to a certain depiction in fluff) approach rather than a "gameist" concern for AP values. As long as everyone in the group is happy with the end result …


current 40k RPG character: Aura Vashaan, Astromancer Witch-Priestess
previous characters: Captain Elias (Celestial Lions Chapter -- debriefed), Comrade-Trooper Dasha Malenko (1207th Valhallan Ice Warriors -- KIA), Sister Elana (Order of the Sacred Rose -- assassinated), Leftenant Darion Baylesworth (Rogue Trader Artemisia -- retired), Taleera "Raven" Nephran (Hive Ganger & Inquisitorial Assassin -- mindwiped)

#16 Face Eater

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 12:56 PM

KommissarK said:

whoseyes said:

 

Do you imagine Comissars wearing helmets?

 

 

Not realy, but I don't take away the protection either. Its too far down the simulationist side to maintain enjoyment.

Also, being so particular about a commissar being able to wear a helmet or not belies a desire to have enemies shoot at said unprotected area. Which I would say is largely unsporting and is only going to make a player resent the GM and resent his choice of PC.

Lets put it this way Kreig Commisar Models have helmets, Cadians generally use standard Commisar models, Tallarns don't actually wear helmets on the models but have them in the game soooo.



#17 Frankie

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 04:50 PM

Really, saying the hat is armored, or is laced with it on the inside of the hat has it make sense mechanically and IC. Just have any helmet you have stand in for the hat's AP.



#18 Kasatka

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 12:26 AM

People are referencing the models too much and as i said in my previous post GW designs the models to look cool and sell, not be realistic interpretations of how that unit would actually be kitted out - space marines would be bedecked in grenade belts, clips of ammunition, armour sealant sprays, combat blades, shields and any other number of devices that they use in the fluff but arent on the models.

A priest is only nominally attached to a guard unit, often by their own choosing and so they can go into war equipped however they wish - im sure some come with gilded carapace armour and golden robes!

Commisars similarly may have their distinct dress uniforms while the regiment they are attached to is billeted but when they get assigned to a combat zone im sure nobody would begrudge a commisar demanding a suit of flak or providing something better themselves.


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