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Getting your favorite items from a large deck


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#1 Osbo25

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 01:43 AM

I suggested this to my wife and she thought it was a good idea.  We play with all of the expansions, which means that we have 483 Adventure Cards in play.  This means that some of our favorite items (for me, the Runesword; for her, the Maiden and the Unicorn) almost never show up.

We are going to try separating some of those cards out into a separate deck.  Then when we trade in trophy points we can choose either to take a strength/craft bonus OR draw from that other deck.

I'm thinking we'll make it that you have to trade in ten trophy points to draw from the deck.



#2 0beron

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 03:04 AM

Osbo25 said:

I suggested this to my wife and she thought it was a good idea.  We play with all of the expansions, which means that we have 483 Adventure Cards in play.  This means that some of our favorite items (for me, the Runesword; for her, the Maiden and the Unicorn) almost never show up.

We are going to try separating some of those cards out into a separate deck.  Then when we trade in trophy points we can choose either to take a strength/craft bonus OR draw from that other deck.

I'm thinking we'll make it that you have to trade in ten trophy points to draw from the deck.

I'm not sure what my favorite item(s) would be but like you, it seems, I only play with my wife and the incredible large deck means some things are rare. On the other hand I have noticed that whenever we add a new expansion's Adventure cards to the deck they take a long time to "un-clump" the tendency for them to want to stay close to, say, other Blood Moon cards, for example, which means you could end up encountering long streaks of just those sets' cards.

 Like yourself I've thought of ways around that. No matter how differently I try to shuffle and integrate, some will always run in packs, even Frostmarch cards. Probably just need to play more < 'bout once a month >.

 Two ideas; which we haven't tried yet. 1) Separate into 2 Adventure decks. Draw 1 for Day and 1 for Night. (not crazy about this one)

2) 3 approximate sized decks. It is your choice which to pick from; every turn you could pick a different one if you want.

  this one, is… maybe.  I would almost tweak it and say, choose any deck - but no Fate re-rolls on any encounters, since you've already altered Fate by choosing from 1 of 3 piles.



#3 The_Warlock

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 06:57 AM

Osbo25 said:

I suggested this to my wife and she thought it was a good idea.  We play with all of the expansions, which means that we have 483 Adventure Cards in play.  This means that some of our favorite items (for me, the Runesword; for her, the Maiden and the Unicorn) almost never show up.

We are going to try separating some of those cards out into a separate deck.  Then when we trade in trophy points we can choose either to take a strength/craft bonus OR draw from that other deck.

I'm thinking we'll make it that you have to trade in ten trophy points to draw from the deck.

The basic idea is: do not play with all expansions shuffled together!

Separate all decks and customize the Adventure cards as you wish. I suggest you use the base set in every game and enrich it with 2 other sets and with Dungeon/Highland cards, if board expansions are used. We also share love for cards like Ring, Solomon's Crown, Maiden, Runesword, Wand, Unicorn and Mercenary; my wife is especially fond of Crown and Mercenary and always tries to steal them from me if I manage to draw them.

I started playing some games with Base + Reaper, then played another streak with Base + Reaper + Frostmarch, then with Base + Frostmarch + Sacred Pool and right now I'm playing with Base + Sacred Pool + Blood Moon, which by the way is the best combination we've found.

In the past, I played some games with Base + Reaper + Sacred Pool and that was quite brutal, most characters were suffering and struggling to survive, instead of improving. For this reason I didn't try that mix again.



#4 BanthaFodder

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 07:46 AM

Just a thought that occured to me. Has anyone ever tried splitting the deck so there is a stack for each type:

 

1. Events

2. Spirits

3. Enemies

4. Srangers

5. Objects

6. Places

 

and when you have to draw a card, you roll a die to see which deck you draw from. (Roll multiple dice for drawing multiple cards)

It might possibly be disasterous and I would imagine it would favour places but maybe not drastically so. Would give more power to Prophetess etc unless were curtailed somehow.

 

Anyhoo, just a thought. Could be an interesting varient if playing will all expansions.

 

 



#5 Dam

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 08:03 AM

The_Warlock said:

The basic idea is: do not play with all expansions shuffled together!

Shhh, that's crazy talk! Moar, moar, moar Adventure cards reir !


"A dirty mind is its own reward."


#6 Osbo25

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 12:07 PM

The_Warlock said:

The basic idea is: do not play with all expansions shuffled together!

Separate all decks and customize the Adventure cards as you wish.

Meh.  Too much effort.



#7 Osbo25

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 12:09 PM

BanthaFodder said:

Just a thought that occured to me. Has anyone ever tried splitting the deck so there is a stack for each type:

1. Events

2. Spirits

3. Enemies

4. Srangers

5. Objects

6. Places

and when you have to draw a card, you roll a die to see which deck you draw from. (Roll multiple dice for drawing multiple cards)

It might possibly be disasterous and I would imagine it would favour places but maybe not drastically so. Would give more power to Prophetess etc unless were curtailed somehow.

Anyhoo, just a thought. Could be an interesting varient if playing will all expansions.

My wife had this same suggestion today.  I'd like to give it a try, with the caveat that you cannot use fate to reroll what you draw.  Going through the Highlands and Dungeon would need to be done normally, though, I think.



#8 0beron

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 02:42 PM

While I think Talisman is a great game and certainly can work with to some people's enjoyment better, when only some expansions are used, I 'm too much of a "as intended" protocol person. Disclaimers on each new set always say they can be used with any (and therefore all) other expansion sets.

Perhaps for me and my co player, this is the 'random' or chaos factor that I seek: It is not always possible to encounter every thing you want. Its like life itself. Each game should be played as if it were the first and that you had no desire to achieve this Wand or that Follower, because each game should stand alone - a new story in the land of Talisman, with new characters meeting new challenges.

Long Live Talisman!

PS: I'm not snarking on any one in this thread, I actually have found it inciteful and may still consider swapping in or out some of these ideas



#9 Osbo25

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 03:14 PM

I agree with you about each game being unique unto itself.  But that doesn't change the fact that we still want the really cool stuff.  :)

With as much as my wife and I play, we haven't seen the Rune Sword or the Unicorn in a long time.  (She currently has the Maiden, so she's somewhat happy.)  We're just trying to find a way to see these things again at least some of the time without having to strip down the Adventure Card deck to only 100 or so cards.  But we also want to make it cost something to the individual characters to do this.  I think 10 trophy points is an adequate price for something that you might not get to keep very long anyway.



#10 0beron

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 12:56 AM

I think, my friend, that is the problem with 2 player games, alas. Obviously in a 3 or more player you will come across the cards quicker.

I say if that is very important to you than you are free to use some of the suggestions here.

I actually like the idea (it was yours) about separating the decks by object, follower, enemy/types, etc.

 A compromise on that (and suddenly I'm thinking of an unofficial home brew maybe) would be to determine by consensus, maybe a small amount of most desired cards.  Let's say you limit it to 1 out of 3 or 4 cards. Take about 1/3 of the most desired and have those set aside as a special FATE deck. If you are willing to pay a Fate you can draw from that deck instead. Perhaps it should be 2 FATE since they are desired that much, you would lose FATE options



#11 0beron

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 01:57 AM

I just had an even crazier idea! Of course they are House rules and may not be suitable for all players

  Let's say that out of the many cool things we like - Followers, Magickal/Obects, Trinkets, etc., in the full usage Adventure deck of 480-some cards there might be about 90 total cool, kick-ass, most-desired etc.

 By consensus with all players, decide on 1/3 (30) of those and set aside for the Special Fate deck.

 Have 1 or 2 options in play: At any regular 'draw 1 or more cards' space if you pay X fate you can draw from the special deck instead (but no other use of Fate in that turn).

 And/or at any "Prayer" space where a character is allowed to pray by other conventions, an option to pay X fate instead and draw the special deck, again, no other use of Fate in that turn.



#12 BanthaFodder

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 02:15 AM

Yes, you would only want to try this with the main adventure deck, the others would be too small.

As I said, the problem might be that the Places (and Strangers to a lesser extent) might be an issue as they start smaller and they stay on board in general. Those deck could shrink very fast. Could introduce other mechanisms but that then makes it much more complicated to run.

It may work, would need play testing.

 

Some other suggestions:

  • Have you considered playing with multiple characters each if just the two of you?

    Back in 1st edition days used to do that with my brothers, there were 3 of us and we had 2 characters each.
    You would go through cards a lot faster that way and also more variation.
    Additionally you introduce an extra dynamic of having a "team" if you wanted to play it that way.

 

  • Take the cards out you desire , lets call them Treasure cards, and alternatively (or all even)

 

  1. add them to the choice of reward you get at the end of Dungeon/Highlands. 
     
  2. use as an optional reward when completing a Warlock's Quest instead of a talisman
     
  3. This is a wacky one and very home brew : 

    You will need something to act as a counter from 12 to 0 (a clock face would work) and a reference card for locations, something like you get on the Hermit, Imp, Ghost etc but include spaces that are in the expansion regions. I don't have anything with me so can't make suggestions where at the moment.

    Roll 2 dice, this is where you set the counter to for the number of rounds before the Treasure appears

    At the end of each round, move the counter down until you get to 0

    Once at zero, a Treasure appears, roll a die to see where it will be placed. 

    Could even decide on what the treasure is before-hand and if you really want it, tactically try and position yourself. Would you go for a specifiy location or try to be within range of a couple…. ?

    Even further, you could also draw an enemy (reserve them up front if using single adventure deck) and appoint them as Guardian of the treasure. Which means that they appear alongside and you would have to defeat/evade them to get to the Treasure.

    Start the process again for the next Treasure


    It just needs a name, some theme and artwork. If I get time and people think it sounds good I may do it.

 

Anyway, that is a few more options for you to think about….

 

 

 



#13 Osbo25

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 02:43 AM

0beron said:

 

I think, my friend, that is the problem with 2 player games, alas. Obviously in a 3 or more player you will come across the cards quicker.

A compromise on that (and suddenly I'm thinking of an unofficial home brew maybe) would be to determine by consensus, maybe a small amount of most desired cards.  Let's say you limit it to 1 out of 3 or 4 cards. Take about 1/3 of the most desired and have those set aside as a special FATE deck. If you are willing to pay a Fate you can draw from that deck instead. Perhaps it should be 2 FATE since they are desired that much, you would lose FATE options

 

 

My wife and I usually play at least two characters each, though usually it's three.  Even then, with all the decks in play, the favorite cards are hard to come by.

Anything that penalizes the player is an adequate solution in my eyes.  I went with the trophy points because most of the followers and/or objects also give strength and/or craft bonuses.  If you give up the trophy points then you aren't getting the permanent strength and/or craft bonuses that come from turning in trophies.  And by increasing the amount to 10 trophy points to draw a card, you are giving up even more opportunity to permanently increase your stats in order to get something that only gives a bonus in certain situations and which might very well be taken away from you in any number of different ways.



#14 0beron

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 03:57 AM

BanthaFodder said:

  1. This is a wacky one and very home brew : 

    You will need something to act as a counter from 12 to 0 (a clock face would work) and a reference card for locations, something like you get on the Hermit, Imp, Ghost etc but include spaces that are in the expansion regions. I don't have anything with me so can't make suggestions where at the moment.

    Roll 2 dice, this is where you set the counter to for the number of rounds before the Treasure appears

    At the end of each round, move the counter down until you get to 0

    Once at zero, a Treasure appears, roll a die to see where it will be placed. 

    Could even decide on what the treasure is before-hand and if you really want it, tactically try and position yourself. Would you go for a specifiy location or try to be within range of a couple…. ?

    Even further, you could also draw an enemy (reserve them up front if using single adventure deck) and appoint them as Guardian of the treasure. Which means that they appear alongside and you would have to defeat/evade them to get to the Treasure.

    Start the process again for the next Treasure


    It just needs a name, some theme and artwork. If I get time and people think it sounds good I may do it.

 I like your wacky idea. I would prefer it to be random (you don't know what treasure it is) and I like the possible enemy that comes with such Treasure.



#15 0beron

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 04:06 AM

I think back in the 2nd edition era my wife and I played with 2 characters, but we actually don't favor that, these days. Must be getting old, but it seems hard enough to keep track of 1 character.

I would say there are lots of interesting ideas here.

As a side note, I hope that after all the board corner sets are official, perhaps we'll get one or two small expansions that have the purpose of integrating concepts or elements between the boards. I like the example of having a card that could be encountered in say, the Highlands, and has the possibility of teleporting you or a desired object, etc. to another expansions' area. { you find a"map" of a secret tunnel in the Lost City of the Highlands that can take you to a Vault/Treasure Room/Hall of Darkness in the Dungeon}.

  While it seems there would be no 'practical' point in such a short cut, perhaps if we consider strategies between the use of other Regions, Dragon-Lords, Day/Night Mechanics, etc., they may develop.



#16 Thernand

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 05:18 AM

Hi All,

Here is what we do in our games.  We use all expansions and use a draw pile which we do not shuffle from game to game until we use up half the cards, then we re-shuffle the deck.  We also re-shuffle the unused cards before we start a game.  This works well for us, we usally play anywhere from 3 to 6 players 2 or 3 times a month so we see a lot of cards.



#17 Nioreh

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 07:05 AM

0beron said:

…On the other hand I have noticed that whenever we add a new expansion's Adventure cards to the deck they take a long time to "un-clump" the tendency for them to want to stay close to, say, other Blood Moon cards, for example, which means you could end up encountering long streaks of just those sets' cards.

 

Ive noticed this too, I think its because new cards are more planar so there's less space between them than between a new card and a older more bent card. When you shuffle it will be more likely that cards are inserted between new-old than new-new or old-old..

Anyways, we've solved this by mixing in a very thorough way. Dividing/joinging the deck we just put one card at a tiem in a number of piles on the table and then stack the small piles toghether. Not as time consuming as one might think since we're usually alest 4ppl doing one parth each and its only necessary for the main adventure deck :P



#18 0beron

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 07:44 AM

Hi Nioreh, and that is a good idea.  

  I was actually doing something similar, as I try to integrate and that is I deal out the cards into a grid, 6 by 6, or even more. Then I shuffle these mini decks and finally stack all decks back together.

 

I could combine your and my method, rather easily too. So I'll try that next game and with all future extra Adventure cards to be added. Thanks,



#19 Bolithio

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 03:28 PM

I play with a group of 4-5 pretty regularly. We had been adding all the cards together as we acquired expansions - which we have all of now. We came to find balancing issues with the huge adventure deck. Some times market day would never come. Some times you get a bag of gold 5 turns in a row. Eventually we broke it all down again - which took us 20 mins.

Now we play with the core cards + 1 expansion and 1 board expansion. Or just the core + 1 non-board expansion. Immediately we realized that not only is the game more balanced this way, you get a much better feel of each expansion and get to experience their unique flavor. I think there are cards that counter each other in the expansions, and with a huge deck that balance is lost. (If you playing the dragon, I think the core cards only is the way to go)

Now that we have everything separated it takes about 5 min to shuffle in what we want and 5-10 min to separate at the end of the game.

We also separate the characters like this, selecting from the vanilla characters and the ones from what ever expansions we are playing with.



#20 Kallabecca

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 05:22 PM

The other problem with breaking the decks down into more, but smaller decks, is the effect it has on certain characters, like the Sage who always knows what card is on top of the Adventure deck… If it is randomly determined, then the Sage doesn't really know until it is too late as they can't make an informed decision of where to go based on what is about to come up.






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