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Rule by Decree - cannot be cancelled


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#1 kc1980

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 01:05 AM

My friends had a question as i am teaching the rules as i know them and we are still learning, i'd like some clarification if you may be so kind:

When Rule by Decree is around which cannot be cancelled, can i somehow (i forget how i did this) force the player using the Rule by Decree to reveal another plot card before it would resolve?  They argued that i couldn't do that because the effect cannot be cancelled.

Provided the timing is correct and i can force the plot change before the effect takes place is that legal?

I'm assuming that something has to say 'cancel' to count as cancelling?

thanks.



#2 stormwolf27

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 01:51 AM

Unfortunately, with the exception of saves/cancels (which you can't cancell RbD, as you pointed out), there is no window for responses or player actions before any when revealed effects resolve on the plots (and that means every plot resolves before you get to respond to any of them in melee), as per the framework for the plot phase.

 

1. player actions

2. choose and reveal plots

3. choose first player

4. first player chooses order of "when revealed" resolutions.

       a) saves/cancels triggered by plots revealed.

5. select titles (melee)

6. responses

7. player actions

 

(I know this isn't ver batim from the rules, but this is the order, approximately)


"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka


#3 kc1980

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 03:52 AM

appreciate the speedy reply

so i must have been using :

Any Phase: Kneel 3 influence or kneel a Noble character to force an opponent to reveal a new plot card. If the newly revealed plot card has a lower income than yours, claim 1 power for your House

since i was playing Baratheon (Core) and what i'm understanding is that there is not time to respond to the effect of a revealed plot unless i have a cancel and since RbD cannot be cancelled then there is no way to really counter the effect?



#4 -Istaril

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 05:43 AM

Rule by Decree is a very important card, but you can typically see it coming and prepare for it. If your opponent plays a single card out of his hand before choosing plots, he's probably trying to duck under the number of cards you have to play his Rule by Decree. In anticipation, you can try to play a card yourself (ambush one in, play an event), or at least you can exactly predict his initiative/claim for the next turn.

If your deck has cards you can fetch back from the discard pile (eg. Lannister knife attachment), or that benefit from being discarded (eg Darkstar), the "cost" of losing a few cards is easily offset. Running "The Laughing Storm" can prevent it entirely.

One of the easiest counters is just to have Rule By Decree in your deck. Reveal it with (or after, using a plot-swapping effect) his, and he'll have to discard down to 4 after you do (unless of course he's below 4 cards to start with).

And remember, while losing 2-3 cards might feel pretty lousy, you get to choose the cards you discard and you're still left with a playable hand of your best cards.



#5 Khudzlin

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 06:43 PM

I need to correct your timing, Stormwolf27. Selecting Titles happens in a different Framework Action Window (with no player actions in between), so it's:

  1. Choose and reveal plots
  2. Count initiative
  3. Determine First Player
  4. Resolve plot "When revealed" passives, then other passives (the order is chosen by the First Player)
  5. Responses (in turn order, starting with the First player)
  6. Moribund cards effectively leave play
  7. Select Titles
  8. Passives for title selection
  9. Responses to title selection
  10. Moribund cards effectively leave play

Each of there (except #6 and #10) can be cancelled between their initiation and resolution (each passive or response has its own initiation and resolution, so it also has its own opportunity to be cancelled).



#6 stormwolf27

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 01:05 AM

Khudzlin said:

I need to correct your timing, Stormwolf27. Selecting Titles happens in a different Framework Action Window (with no player actions in between), so it's:

  1. Choose and reveal plots
  2. Count initiative
  3. Determine First Player
  4. Resolve plot "When revealed" passives, then other passives (the order is chosen by the First Player)
  5. Responses (in turn order, starting with the First player)
  6. Moribund cards effectively leave play
  7. Select Titles
  8. Passives for title selection
  9. Responses to title selection
  10. Moribund cards effectively leave play

Each of there (except #6 and #10) can be cancelled between their initiation and resolution (each passive or response has its own initiation and resolution, so it also has its own opportunity to be cancelled).

Right. I did say it was approximate, though (didn't have the flow chart in front of me, so I was going off end of day memory). don't forget, the only responses you get in step 5 there are saves/cancels. You cannot, say, play a SaD or CtC to pull a character out to put Meera Reed back in shadows before Valar goes off, sending her to the dead pile. While the card you pick to go to your hand becomes "moribund: hand," it doesn't leave play to trigger Meera's response (which you technically wouldn't get anyway in this situation) until after plots are fully resolved.

Also, I'm not sure, other than "I Fight to Win," what you're referring to with passives and responses to titles. Not saying your wrong, but I'm not familiar with any


"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka


#7 Shadowcatx

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 02:25 AM

stormwolf27 said:

Right. I did say it was approximate, though (didn't have the flow chart in front of me, so I was going off end of day memory). don't forget, the only responses you get in step 5 there are saves/cancels. You cannot, say, play a SaD or CtC to pull a character out to put Meera Reed back in shadows before Valar goes off, sending her to the dead pile. While the card you pick to go to your hand becomes "moribund: hand," it doesn't leave play to trigger Meera's response (which you technically wouldn't get anyway in this situation) until after plots are fully resolved.

Also, I'm not sure, other than "I Fight to Win," what you're referring to with passives and responses to titles. Not saying your wrong, but I'm not familiar with any

 

That is not correct. Step 5 allows for any and all responses. However, step 5 is after all plots have been resolved so you are correct in that you can't use CTC to trigger Meera's response and save her from Valar. 



#8 Khudzlin

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 10:20 AM

If resolved before Valar Morghulis, either Called to Court or Search and Detain can be used to return Meera to hand. Being moribund->hand will then prevent her from being killed when resolving Valar Morghulis.



#9 stormwolf27

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 06:57 PM

Khudzlin said:

If resolved before Valar Morghulis, either Called to Court or Search and Detain can be used to return Meera to hand. Being moribund->hand will then prevent her from being killed when resolving Valar Morghulis.

Right. We were referring to trying to make another character leave play to trigger Meera, putting her back in shadows, though.


"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka


#10 Khudzlin

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 08:40 PM

Indeed. I was suggesting a way to pull Meera's skin out of the fire complice






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