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Kessel Run list help: Imperial


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#1 rumblefish

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 05:12 PM

Hey folks, 

Looking for some input on my Kessel Run list. I've only played two games but I'm loving it so far.

I have 5 TIEs and 2 TieAs to work with, so the swarm is out. Although I can probably wrangle 2 more TIEs.

I'm leaning towards this list. Vader and the Tempest sticking together to swarm tactics something to pieces with Cluster Missiles to hopefully tilt the odds in my favour early on.

5 ships seems low for an Imperial list from what I've been reading and once the missiles are gone there's not a lot of punch there.

Total Squad Points: 100

Pilot: "Backstabber"
Tie Fighter (16)
Upgrades:

  • No Upgrades Selected



Pilot: Darth Vader
Tie Advanced x1 (29)
Upgrades:

  • Swarm Tactics (2)
  • Cluster Missiles (4)



Pilot: Academy Pilot 1
Tie Fighter (12)
Upgrades:

  • No Upgrades Selected



Pilot: Academy Pilot 2
Tie Fighter (12)
Upgrades:

  • No Upgrades Selected



Pilot: Tempest Squadron Pilot 1
Tie Advanced (21)
Upgrades:

  • Cluster Missiles (4)
 

 

 

My other thought is this, but it doesn't feel focused to me.

Total Squad Points: 100

Pilot: "Howlrunner"
Tie Fighter (18)
Upgrades:

  • Swarm Tactics (2)



Pilot: "Mauler Mithel"
Tie Fighter (17)
Upgrades:

  • Swarm Tactics (2)



Pilot: Academy Pilot 1
Tie Fighter (12)
Upgrades:

  • No Upgrades Selected



Pilot: Academy Pilot 2
Tie Fighter (12)
Upgrades:

  • No Upgrades Selected



Pilot: Academy Pilot 3
Upgrades:

  • No Upgrades Selected



Pilot: Tempest Squadron Pilot 1
Tie Advanced (21)
Upgrades:

  • Cluster Missiles (4)

 

I'm assuming that Cluster Missiles are the go to missile, at least for wave 1?

Any input is appreciated.



#2 Duraham

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 05:37 PM

I'd go with your first list, but change backstabber to Black Sqd TIE + squad leader, so you will technically have 2 Darth Vaders.

 

as for cluster vs concussion, I prefer concussion a lot more over cluster, because when you pull off a concussion + focus it's a guaranteed 3-4 hit, whereas for cluster you need to remember that you can only focus once, and that your opponent also gets multiple evade dice rolls as well. You will need to see which one you prefer though, and work with that.



#3 rumblefish

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 05:49 PM

Duraham said:

I'd go with your first list, but change backstabber to Black Sqd TIE + squad leader, so you will technically have 2 Darth Vaders.

 

as for cluster vs concussion, I prefer concussion a lot more over cluster, because when you pull off a concussion + focus it's a guaranteed 3-4 hit, whereas for cluster you need to remember that you can only focus once, and that your opponent also gets multiple evade dice rolls as well. You will need to see which one you prefer though, and work with that.

Thanks! 

So the increased flexibility from squad leader makes up for the loss of slightly increased situational firepower from Backstabber?

Good point on the missiles. I guess cluster starts to make more sense if you're facing a lot of low agility ships.



#4 Duraham

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 05:54 PM

rumblefish said:

 

Duraham said:

 

I'd go with your first list, but change backstabber to Black Sqd TIE + squad leader, so you will technically have 2 Darth Vaders.

 

as for cluster vs concussion, I prefer concussion a lot more over cluster, because when you pull off a concussion + focus it's a guaranteed 3-4 hit, whereas for cluster you need to remember that you can only focus once, and that your opponent also gets multiple evade dice rolls as well. You will need to see which one you prefer though, and work with that.

 

 

Thanks! 

So the increased flexibility from squad leader makes up for the loss of slightly increased situational firepower from Backstabber?

Good point on the missiles. I guess cluster starts to make more sense if you're facing a lot of low agility ships.

 

 

 

not just that, your tempest is now a fake darth vader since it has access to 2 actions + swarm tactics from Vader himself. Meaning, if you are running concussion instead, on your very 1st go you can fire off both concussion missiles on focus for a guaranteed 6-8 hit (before evasion) on anybody you don't like. After tempest kicks the bucket, your squad leader can be extended to whichever academy TIE that needs it, such as focusing a TIE that is in a good range 1 position after doing a roll, or get a TIE that is aimed at by others evade + focus to keep it alive that little bit longer, or get a TIE into a good position through collision, then come back with the black sqd TIE and have him squad leader that TIE to focus or something.

 

If black sqd TIE dies early, then it's still business as usual, there's no particular pain or drawback whatsoever either.



#5 Cid_MCDP

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 02:45 AM

It was FAQed that Focus only can affect one salvo of Cluster Missile shots (Marksmanship, however can work on both).

The thing about Clusters and Focusing works both ways- if someone is trying to Focus against the Clusters, that only works once too, and 6 dice is an awful lot of dice to throw around in this game, even if it is in two separate handfuls. If I was facing a Y-Wing and wanted to get it out of the way early and I had two ships in play, one with Clusters and one with Concussions, I'd pick the ship with Clusters as they're likely to eat up more of that 1 Agility ship's shields and hull, then probably lean more towards Concussions to take out X-Wings. 

Me personally, I've used both to good effect as both and Imperial and Rebel player (I won an A-Wing at the KRT). I think like most every other option in this game, they're both useful even though they have different effects and mechanics. Either may work better in a specific context, but neither become completely ineffective in the wrong context. 

Try 'em both out if you can before hand and see which one works better for you. If you find yourself at Range 3 from a target a lot, maybe try the Concussions as they do kind of address a hole in the long-range Imperial arsenal (that'll soon be filled by Slave 1). If you generally run into 1-2 Y-Wings, maybe go for Clusters. If at all possible, take both on two different ships. 

Speaking of Range 3, keep in mind that these missiles are Secondary Weapon Systems which means they don't trigger the extra die for attacking at Range 1, but conversely don't trigger the extra defense die at Range 3. Seems like everyone, me included for a long time, plays by the first part of that rule, but then forgets the second part. 

Good luck!

 

 



#6 Vorpal Sword

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 05:43 AM

Duraham said:

I'd go with your first list, but change backstabber to Black Sqd TIE + squad leader, so you will technically have 2 Darth Vaders.

 

as for cluster vs concussion, I prefer concussion a lot more over cluster, because when you pull off a concussion + focus it's a guaranteed 3-4 hit, whereas for cluster you need to remember that you can only focus once, and that your opponent also gets multiple evade dice rolls as well. You will need to see which one you prefer though, and work with that.

The list I ran at the Kessel Run (4-2 record over two tournaments) was almost exactly what Duraham is describing:

  • Vader (29) + Swarm Tactics (2) + Concussion Missiles (4)
  • Tempest Squad Pilot (21) + Concussion Missiles (4)
  • Black Squadron Pilot (14) + Squad Leader (2)
  • Academy Pilot (12)
  • Academy Pilot (12)

Cluster Missiles are not very good, in my mind, unless you're firing at a target with Agility 1 or you're putting them on a pilot with some inherent no-action boost to attacks. A Concussion Missile with Focus, on the other hand, is one of the harder hits in the game, and dealing that much damage early in the game is the major strength of the list. Against the Empire you (probably) want to target two different fighters with your missiles; against Rebels you want to concentrate your fire to take down one ship.

The list's biggest weakness is that the Tempest Squadron Pilot is going to have a difficult time acquiring a Target Lock on a target who moves after the Advanced acts. You can minimize the problem to some degree by using Focus when the Tempest Squad Pilot activates, and then granting a Target Lock later in the round using Squad Leader.

Once your missiles are away, your offense is actually pretty weak, so you're going to want to very carefully focus fire on one target at a time. For as long as the Black Squadron Pilot lives, he should be granting Target Lock or Focus to the Tempest Squadron Pilot every round. You should be using the Academy Pilots to block your opponent's movement and actions.

Good luck! It can definitely work, but it does take thoughtful and efficient movement to pull off.



#7 niceas

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 07:53 AM

My list was slso similar - I ran four academy pilots, Backstabber, and Vader with cluster missiles and swarm tactics. I went 2-0 with two routs - but both my opponents were rebels. In retrospect, I think concussion missiles would have been the superior choice.

#8 rumblefish

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 05:14 PM

Thanks folks! The thoughtful replies are much appreciated.

 

If I don't cruise to utter and spectacular victory you are all to blame!



#9 rumblefish

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 07:13 PM

Well, I'm very disappointed by all of you! Which means I stank up the joint and came 5th of 6 at the KR this last weekend.

 

I took the Vader with Swarm, Tempest, Black Squadron with Squad and 2 Academy list, only I choked at the last moment and put Cluster Missiles on Vader and the Tempest.

In game 1 I faced a Wedge and three Gold YWings with 2 Ion Cannons list…which might have vindicated my Cluster decision if I hadn't panicked and fired them all at Wedge over two turns, managing to strip only his shields. Thanks to some incompetent maneuvering, and a misunderstanding of the ship to ship collision rules on my part I never managed to use Squad Leader on the Tempest and Vader and an Academy pilot were taken out in short order. I clawed my way back, finishing off Wedge and eventually whittling down a YWing. A savage round of close range YWing shooting (!) ended the come back.

Good game, as my opponent was as shaky on some of the rules as I was and we were both patient with each other. I really managed what punch my list has poorly and fell too far behind early.

 

In game 2 I face another Rebel list. Wedge, Luke and Horton, all with upgrades and astromechs. I learned quickly from my first game and managed to co-ordinate the ideal first strike on Wedge, taking him out before he could fire once! That was pretty much the game. He managed to drop an Academy pilot, and I chased Dutch around while F2 saved his bacon shot after shot. Ended with a minor victory.

 

Game 3 was the final round and we just played our tournament lists instead of breaking out the Wave 2 stuff (not that I would have touched that anyway :)). ANOTHER Rebel list, Wedge with Determination, Dutch with an Ion and 2 Rookies. This was the eventual undefeated winner of our little tourney.

Anything I had learned by the second game went out the window in this one. He played a clean maneuvering, precise game and I played TIE bumper cars. I took Dutch down to 1 or 2 hull I think, but that was the best I could do and was summarily wiped off the board.

 

My buddy came third and was generous enough to give me an Interceptor, which I'm excited to take for a spin, as I definitely felt de-clawed once this list had lost it's missiles.

Overall, three fun games and I'm looking forward to playing more of this surprisingly great game!

 






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