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Dwarves & Chaos - Need help


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#1 Gitzman

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 07:42 AM

Hey gang, need help here:

So i've got a game going and several of the group are Dwarves.  I am about to deal with some daemons, taint and mutation content in our upcoming adventure and need to know how Dwarves react to Chaos.  I know Dwarves have a resistance to Chaos, but would you guys please help me with the following?

  1. Can a Dwarf suffer from a mutation or is it only Insanities?
  2. Can a Daemon still talk to Dwarves in their head, corrupt them, lure them, etc?
  3. Can a Dwarf suffer/benefit the effects of Khorne?
  4. Can  a Dwarf get a Mark of Chaos?

Timely help would be greatly appriciated, we are playing later tonight.


Gitzman



#2 socratim

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 08:38 AM

Well, my understanding is, that dwarves can't mutate. They are completely Chaos-resistant in that manner. So the danger of facing Chaos only drives them insane.

 

I find this very fitting to their earthbound character. They are so stubborn and fixated on gold and stone, that they can't be corrupted by other means.

 

But still their grudges, gold-addiction and stubborness can have effects similar to chaos-corruption in my mind. So Chaos would be more subtle in achieving its goals with them. Like driving them mad in such a manner, that they fall back to their earthly faults. Like a dwarf, who saw too much of chaos and thus completely obsesses over his love for gold as a compensation.

 

As to the influence of Khorne: Some insanities or the grudges itself are similar to Khorne's influence, I think. An insanity that derived from Khorne's influence could be an extrem grudge that spreads to similar themes as the original grudge and make the dwarf frenzy.

 

At least that is how I personally play it out.



#3 valvorik

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 01:03 PM

I don't have my GM Book or the relevant supplement handy to see if WFRP3 says dwarf is immune to mutation.  I recall elves are don't recall dwarves being so but then again have had an elf player but no dwarf yet.

Chaos Dwarves are mutant dwarves in effect I believe but otherwise it does seem fitting that like elves they be more prone to madness.

Other than that it seems all good.

You can also burn off corruption as added challenge dice until such time as you get answer.



#4 Yepesnopes

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 05:48 PM

From the liber mutatis, pg 18

"Dwarfs and elves (as well as a few other notable races like halflings) are notoriously resistant to the ravages of corruption. Not only

do these races have a significantly higher threshold than humans before succumbing to corruption, they are not afflicted by physical mutations.

Rather, when a member of one of these races accumulates corrup- tion greater than his threshold, he gains an insanity. (…) "

 

There is nothing such a "Chaos Dwarf", chaos dwarf do not exist.


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#5 Glorian Underhill

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 09:06 PM

Dwarfs don't generally mutate under normal circumstances. But they do under exceptionel ones.

  1. Can a Dwarf suffer from a mutation or is it only Insanities?

SPOILER for Karak Azgal, 2nd Edition

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There is a chaos cult lead by a mutated dwarf. Although he is corrupted by a special altar of pure Slanesh power which also instantly mutates Player Characters if they touch them and make them instantly Pawns of the Pornogod. Additionally there is a twisted Monster in the Depths of the mines which consists of three combined heavily mutated dwarfs. Also the product of the mentioned Altar.

Also, when Gotrek the slayer told of his expedition to the Chaoswastes, in "Daemonslayer", in his before Slayer times he told how they died to the effects and taint of the Chaos Waste. So when they return with the Airship "Spirit of Grungni", it has Airfilters installed on the Gondola, so they didn't inhale the Dust of the desert.

Also Korden from "Eye for an Eye" went insane after watching the cursed picture. No Mutation though but an evidence for the insanity part.

Another example is that dwarf babys after they are born are watched by the Priests and killed/banned into the wilds if they show a sign of mutation. Quite Spartan like. In the novel "Honourkeeper" there is a dwarf who wasn't killed as a baby and is suffering from mental illness and some minor Mutations, but is more or less stable in his condition.

So I asume that they aren't completely imune to Warpstone and Chaos influence if it is concetrated.

 

  1. Can a Daemon still talk to Dwarves in their head, corrupt them, lure them, etc?

There are several examples from Felix and Gotrek novels. In Karak Dum when the Bloodthirster talks to the dwarven King they had some relationship bevore. Also the Slaanesh Deamon in the Black Ark in "Elfslayer" talked to Gotrek. Booth talked to the dwarfs in the old fashioned way, but for example in "Orcslayer" the bad Tentacle Monster from the past used its Psychic Powers to controll and subdue dwarfs, orcs and humans. Also Gotrek fell shortly under their power.

So I asume that dwarfs can be lured, corrupted and mind controlled by thinking they are doing everything under their own mind.

  1. Can a Dwarf suffer/benefit the effects of Khorne?

Dwarfs have a very Viking like core of life. In "The Great Betrayel" the elfes where shocked when while watching a gladiator show of dwarfs versus goblins the dwarfs of several Holds where so excited that they started a barfight in the kings tent. Just for good fun and some bashing wihtout real the goal to hurt someone. So Violence is no stranger for dwarfs. Also they are a warrior centered society, where deeds on the battlefield are valued much. Not solely like Klingons, as the dwarfs also honour a great inventor, artisan or brewmaster. Also in times of war every clandwarf is called to the weapons. So there is no real distinction between a civilian dwarf and a warrior. In times of need they are all conscripted into the Karaks Army.

So killing and fighting is part of their society. But not Slaughter or mindless Killing just for the fun of it. Even Slayers who fight a lot and like to do same trashing are not into the part of killing civilians or slaughtering in general. So if a dwarf would fall for Khorne it will be recognized by his fellow dwarfs that he is unecessary happy in all the killing part where it is more like choping wood or hewing a tunnel for the dwarfs. Concentraded work and fun for sure but no an extatic party of the blades.

  1. Can  a Dwarf get a Mark of Chaos?

SPOILER for Omens of War

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As mentioned earlier: Not by normal means. I think you are refering to The Adventure from "Omens of War". And I think in that circumstance I would say yes. As mentioned above, powerfull Chaos Items work on Dwarfs too. Their Chaos Resistance is not strong enough to stop the pure corrupting Power of an old artifact of the foul gods. And the item in the Adventure is a powerfull Item for sure. So I would play it the way that it will have the same effekt like on a human. Except that for other dwarfs and himslef the change is clearly visible. Other dwarfs will see that something is wrong, although they wont know what it is in an instant.  



#6 DurakBlackaxe

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 12:45 AM

In all editions of Warhammer, I dont remember ever reading about any Elf with a mutation, since they live so close to the chaos wastes you would think they had some at least. Dark elevs may have a mark of slaanesh but thats about it.

But I do remember dwarves associated with chaos. 

First came the norsca dwarves, sometimes seen in norsca warbands. Also called chaos warbands back then, who raided the coast lines like vikings.

The later came the True Chaos dwarves, the one who worship Hashut.  From the chaos dwarf wiki I got this. (This happened when the Ancestor gods had all the other dwarves hide in their Karaks for 2 years)

Without Ancestor Gods to guide them, the Chaos Dwarfs turned to the worship of Hashut c. -4,000 I.C. While resistant to mutation, Dwarfs are not immune to the influence of Chaos, and during this period the ancestors of the Chaos Dwarfs begin to mutate; some bearing only minor mutations and others changing greatly into Bull Centaurs, Great Tauruses, and Lammasu. These mutations are said to have occurred (or at least stabilized) under the influence of Hashut.

In between the appearance of the new current chaos dwarves, you had the below miniatures.  Also their was one with a tentacled arm.

Chaos Dwarf Renegades

It would take alot of chaos to mutate a empire/ world edge dwarf, as they havent been as exposed as the chaos dwarf and norsca dwarves. A dwarf with a mutation would likely kill themselves or go insane. Maybe due to norsca dwarves being so used to mutations amongst their human neighbours, would be less likely to be as repulsed by the mutation?  So the only thing to effect them is the chaos wastes or those chaos storms you sometimes hear about. Alaric the Mad worked with warpstone, it didnt mutate him, but he was mad.  Take from that what you will.

Yepesnopes has quoted the rules saying dwarves are immune to mutation, so maybe there are cases of birth defects? or its the dwarves from Norsca / Plain of Zharr.

 

 

  1. Can a Dwarf suffer from a mutation or is it only Insanities? From the rulebook player dwarves only suffer insanity.
  2. Can a Daemon still talk to Dwarves in their head, corrupt them, lure them, etc? Yes it is possible, but not away from their gods. Can make them do something thats in their nature. In combat show no mercy, lust for gold. Cant see what Nurgle or Tzeentch would do.
  3. Can a Dwarf suffer/benefit the effects of Khorne? They may feel the blood lust if being affected by some khorne demon, since there are no khorne sorcerers, but they wont become a worshipper. Go berserk, would be an example, with rage.
  4. Can  a Dwarf get a Mark of Chaos? I think Marks of the chaos Gods only appear on worshippers?, I doubt anything would cause a player dwarf to forget their own gods.


#7 SJMazzella3380

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 03:57 AM

There has been an entry into my book of grudges for all who have claimed that there are chaos dwarves. 

 

Now that I have that out of the way, in WFRP Dwarves do not mutate, the closest thing that a GM can do is alter a mutation card to be some sort of phyical manefestation of an insanity.  Something like his beard is itching so much that there are chunks of it missing now, and he treats that like a facial mutation card.

 

My GM has stopped talking about chaos and/or Dwarves being kinslayers, he once had a guard in a barracks mention it, and my Ironbreaker swore to kill everyone in the room, including the rest of the party, and have his hold tear down the entire town just to stop those vicious lies…. Everyone had to take an oath not to repeat anything spoken, under pain of death.  :)   that one raised the party tension meter just a wee bit.



#8 Yepesnopes

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 04:38 AM

SJMazzella3380 said:

There has been an entry into my book of grudges for all who have claimed that there are chaos dwarves. 

 

Now that I have that out of the way, in WFRP Dwarves do not mutate, the closest thing that a GM can do is alter a mutation card to be some sort of phyical manefestation of an insanity.  Something like his beard is itching so much that there are chunks of it missing now, and he treats that like a facial mutation card.

 

My GM has stopped talking about chaos and/or Dwarves being kinslayers, he once had a guard in a barracks mention it, and my Ironbreaker swore to kill everyone in the room, including the rest of the party, and have his hold tear down the entire town just to stop those vicious lies…. Everyone had to take an oath not to repeat anything spoken, under pain of death.  :)   that one raised the party tension meter just a wee bit.

that is the spirit!


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#9 Emirikol

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 06:19 AM

FFG went outside canon with non-mutating dwarfs.

Chaos dwarfs and dwarfs in the Warhammer Fantasy novels can mutate.

 

We still play it by the RAW, but this is going to be changed in my TEW campaign; they'll just be more resistant to mutation.

 

jh



#10 philosophant

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 07:00 PM

In the kazak azgul 2nd edition book there are two dwarfs corrupted by chaos and both have mutations of one kind or another.






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