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"Until end of challenge"


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#1 Shadowcatx

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 09:08 AM

Is the phrase "until the end of the challenge" a play restriction? That is can I drop an only game that matters (which is an any phase event) for no value during the plot phase to dodge a rule by decree? 



#2 ktom

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 12:16 PM

"Until the end of a challenge" is the duration of the effect once it resolves, not a limitation or restriction on initiation.



#3 Ratatoskr

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 09:54 PM

ktom said:

"Until the end of a challenge" is the duration of the effect once it resolves, not a limitation or restriction on initiation.

Holy crap, so you're saying you can just chuck this card during any Player Action Window!? Thinking about it, I guess you're right. Most, if not all, other "until the end of the challenge" effects can only be played during challenges, but not because of that wording, but because they do contain a corresponding play restriction or require a "participating" character to be chosen as a target.

Does this need to be brought to the attention of FFG? It was my impression that they tried to avoid this kind of thing, so I can only assume this is unintentional.

(Yesyes, I do remember what we said about assumptions regarding designer intent - that we should avoid them. But I can't help myself).



#4 ktom

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 01:59 AM

Ratatoskr said:

Does this need to be brought to the attention of FFG? It was my impression that they tried to avoid this kind of thing, so I can only assume this is unintentional.

(Yesyes, I do remember what we said about assumptions regarding designer intent - that we should avoid them. But I can't help myself).

No, I don't think it needs to be brought to the attention on FFG. I'd lay money that it is either an intentional choice, or a happy accident that they will not "fix," allowing the card to be comboed with Epic Phase challenges, Shadow Politics, Lucas Blackwood, and other effects that allow you to initiate challenges outside of the Challenge phase. The fact that you can "throw it away" as a player action for no practical effect is not a big deal when you consider that there are legitimate uses for it outside of the challenge phase, too.



#5 Ratatoskr

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 02:31 AM

ktom said:

No, I don't think it needs to be brought to the attention on FFG. I'd lay money that it is either an intentional choice, or a happy accident that they will not "fix," allowing the card to be comboed with Epic Phase challenges, Shadow Politics, Lucas Blackwood, and other effects that allow you to initiate challenges outside of the Challenge phase. The fact that you can "throw it away" as a player action for no practical effect is not a big deal when you consider that there are legitimate uses for it outside of the challenge phase, too.

I'm not suggesting it should be made to not work outside the Challenges Phase. Making it a Challenges: action wouldn't solve the problem I'm having anyway (although it would prevent the RBD thing). I'm suggesting it might be made to not be able to be triggered outside a challenge. Adding a play restriction, like "Play only during a challenge" would do the trick.






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