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Question about paints.


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#1 MMAC790

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 02:29 PM

First time painting miniatures, I was wondering where (aside from online) to buy paints. I am on a small budget as of right now, so I was wondering what stores carry the painting supplies needed for miniatures? I have a few craft stores around me such as Michaels and Joannes, would anyone know if they carry such supplies?

If the cheapest option is online, if someone can point me in the right direction which site, that would be very much appreciated.



#2 mgentile7

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 04:59 PM

Micheals craft stores sells a huge line of FolkArt craft paints in a huge color selection.



#3 Fenton

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 01:41 AM

I would second MIchael's for craft paints as well.  (Walmart carries some too)

The color selection is endless and they are only abuot a buck a color, which is a third the cost of mode paint per color and the craft paint bottle's are much bigger. 

If properly thinned they go on fine and can even be ran through your airbrush.  

Eventually you may want to "upgrade" to a model paint line, but they honestly work just about as good.

The exception I feel is their metallic paints that provide spottier coverage and do not thin as well (IMHO), so I would at least slurge the nine or ten bucks to pick up some Vallejo (or other brand) bottles of Silver, Gun,metal, and a Copper when getting started.



#4 sefou

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 04:03 AM

I do own some of those craft paint (Delta Cermacoat) and for the price you pay, it's a bargain. You should pay attention to get only colors mentionned as ''opaque'' becauce the others just wont cover proprely with a brush.

And as mentionned before, if you want metallic colors, get those from a decent miniature paint range. (Games Workshop, Privateer Press or Reaper to name a few).



#5 mgentile7

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 04:36 AM

Fenton said:

I would second MIchael's for craft paints as well.  (Walmart carries some too)

The color selection is endless and they are only abuot a buck a color, which is a third the cost of mode paint per color and the craft paint bottle's are much bigger. 

If properly thinned they go on fine and can even be ran through your airbrush.  

Eventually you may want to "upgrade" to a model paint line, but they honestly work just about as good.

The exception I feel is their metallic paints that provide spottier coverage and do not thin as well (IMHO), so I would at least slurge the nine or ten bucks to pick up some Vallejo (or other brand) bottles of Silver, Gun,metal, and a Copper when getting started.

Yes I agree. The metallics should come from GW or similiar company as they are much better than the craft type metallics.



#6 ItsUncertainWho

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 05:25 AM

Look for model train shops if you can't find a hobby or game shop locally.



#7 MMAC790

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 08:40 AM

Thanks for the replys. I read around, checked out some sites. It seems the Delta paints give the best bang for the buck. I have a problem finding washes though, at stores at least.

- I will most like get any metallics from a model paint store online, same for the washes.



#8 Fenton

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 11:11 AM

The GW washes are not bad, but will cost you bout $4 per pot, which I feel are not necessarily wort it.  You can make your own "ghetto wash" by simply diluting the Delta paints with distilled water, but the problems is the pigment can "fall out" a bit since the mix is too thin and be inconsistent.

 

I would suggest the Les Bursley (of AwesomePaintJob.com fame) washes. They havee worked much better for me.  They are available from Secret Weapon whom Les licensed/gave the recipes to, and they are trulyall I hoped for in performance.

 

Les was also kind enough to post the recipes on Dakka Dakka at one point, and the they can be made comparitively quite cheaply, using Liquitex Matte Medium, Liquitex Flow Enhancer, distilled water, and various Daler Rowney (or other brands) waterproof inks.

 

Although I have the entire GW line of washes and still sometimes use them if I am trying to color match a previous squad or mini I have painted, I otherwise use his recipes exclusivley, especially his Soft Body Black, Sepia, and a few others.  After the initial investment of supplies its like getting them for free.



#9 MMAC790

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 11:27 AM

I think I will get that then, from Secret Weapon, I like that there is a large variety of washes. Any idea if I should, and what kind, of sealers/varnish I would need? And if a spray or brush finish is better.



#10 Fenton

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 03:18 PM

As far as varnish, I always do a two step process of varnishing, first with a gloss coat (since they are usually more durable), then with the matte coat over it so everything is not shiny and unrealistic, and a matte coat has the added of effect of adding a softness to your color blends. 

If properly thinned, I guess you could in theory brush it on, but I have almost always use a rattle can or an airbrush.

I use different things on my mood, but Vallejo makes both a gloss and matte varnsih in a dropper bottle that you thin with distilled water and then I have always airbrushed them on.

Liquid acrylic for non wax floors (Pledge with Future) actually works really well for a thin gloss coat, and seems durable as well.  I guess it should be since its made to keep a shine with people walking on it.  Many people also make washes out of it by thinning paint with it to make "Magic Wash" as people often call it, as an alternative to "the dip method"

While trying out what products you like, I would suggets checking out "dip" such as Army Painter's Quick Shade.  It's not going to win you any Golden Demon Awards, but at the beginning it can make your minis look much better really quick, and is easy.  BGG has a good thread here:

 

http://boardgamegeek...-to-painting-mi

 

Here is a before and after from the post:

 

 

and a Dust squad dipped posted by Felkor on BGG that cale out really well, whom I beleive is a member here as well (hope he does not mind me linking to it.)

 

http://boardgamegeek.../1066035/felkor

 

I have also gone for the super durability of a polyurathane or poly acrylic that you would use on furniture even if I did not "dip", but thinned down, and those minis seem like they could go through a window without chipping, but I am not sure about possible "ambering" of the clear coat over time.

 

Army Painter has a good matte coat spray can, "Anti Shine Spray", as they call it that I feel is aleast as good as Testor's, but is cheaper by quanitiy you might want to try out, as it give easy consistant result.  Vallejo can go on heavy and almost frost sometimes with me.



#11 kennethnchacon

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 02:34 AM

i use walmart apple barrels paints, krylon matte sealer spray and plaid brushes and it is cheap. i do buy some nice paints at local hoddy strores like vallejo, gw washes and gw metals. overall i dont spend alot money on paint and i do have a variety of colors. micheals has a apple paint called camo and is is a good looking green. i wish i could post some pics i dont know how



#12 moffmalthus

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 02:57 AM

I also like the michaels paints but I always go with games workshop paints for metalics and wash. IMO there is nothing better but it all comes down to what works best for you.



#13 kennethnchacon

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 06:01 AM

true i think what im missing testor dull coat but i can not find it



#14 mgentile7

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 03:04 PM

kennethnchacon said:

true i think what im missing testor dull coat but i can not find it

Try hobby masters as well. I found it to be a better finish. Dont forget to hit with a krylon gloss before you use the flat. This gives the mini a tough coat before the flat.



#15 kennethnchacon

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 03:12 PM

i didn't realized that i know people apply gloss for oil wash



#16 Maine

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 04:39 PM

I highly recommend the Army Painter Washes if yo ucan find them (Dark Tone, Strong Tone, and Soft Tone).  They come in dropper bottles.

When you are ready to seal with a gloss and matte sealer, beware to always allow your paint to dry thoroughly (24 hours) before you hit it with spray-on sealer.  Same goes for subsequent spray-on seal coats with a different spray, always allow 24 hours in between to dry.  Spray on varnishes can have chemical reactions with each other which can cause them to turn opaque or other colors ('snow effect').  Spray on varnishes are also sensitive to temperature and humidity.

Personally, I recommend brush-on varnishes, or just Testors Dull-cote (available at Michaels with the other spray paints).  Plastic models don't really need a gloss coat varnish for protection, but as long as you dont 'snow' your model it shouldn't hurt.

A cheap, magical substance useful for both thinning, making washes, and sealing your minis is "Future Floor Wax", now sold in the US as "Pledge Floor Finish Tile and Vinyl Floor CAre with Future Shine.  Looks like this:

http://www.pledge.co...ture-shine.aspx

You can get a 20-something oz bottle at Walmart for $6.

Read more here to find a similar product if you are outside of the US: http://www.swannysmo...leteFuture.html

I use it for thinning my paints, I keep a mixture of 1 part Future to 3 parts water.  I then use this to thin my (model) paints, anywhere from 1:1 to 2:1 (1 part thinner per 2 parts paint).  With the coarser-pigment craft paints you probably want to thin 1:1 to 1:2 - go for consistency of skim milk.  Multiple thin coats gives better results than 1 thick coat.

You can make washes with it, the 'Magic Wash' formula is about the same, 2 to 4 parts thinner formula to 1 part paint.

Finally, sealing - apply Future to the model straight, no thinning.  Wait 24 hours for it to dry, then hit it with Testors Dull Cote to take the shine off.



#17 kennethnchacon

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 07:28 AM

i got army painter couples of days, those are apply directly to paint then apply highlights or are they a better method. whats benefit with future instead of water as i always use when diluting paints. i use krylon matte it is only thing i can find. went to micheals and i dont see it i ask they dont know where it is



#18 Maine

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 07:11 PM

kennethnchacon said:

i got army painter couples of days, those are apply directly to paint then apply highlights or are they a better method. whats benefit with future instead of water as i always use when diluting paints. i use krylon matte it is only thing i can find. went to micheals and i dont see it i ask they dont know where it is

If you are using the washes in the dropper bottles, you apply over the paint.  You can cover the whole of the area if you want, or just go for the recessed areas.  You want to use your brush to herd the paint into the recesses, but you can leave a thin coat over the whole surface if you want to generally darken it.

If you are using the dips in the large cans, you dip the entire model, and then shake/spin off as much as you can.  I don't use dips so I can't advise on how to do this properly.

ThWater does not have a binder and can cause separation of pigment on your palette, and running/pooling on the model.  Future is basically a liquid acrylic (with a couple other chemicals), so it acts like a medium (like Liquitex Matte Medium, which is a bit more expensive at $25 for 16oz).



#19 kennethnchacon

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 01:19 PM

thanks for the info especialy the future used as a medium, i try it out



#20 Maine

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 05:02 PM

kennethnchacon said:

thanks for the info especialy the future used as a medium, i try it out

 

Remember to get the Tile and Vinyl one - Hardwood floor one is not acrylic.

Also thin it 1 part to 3 parts water.






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