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Vessel of the Fleet Questions


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#1 HappyDaze

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 03:55 PM

Vessel of the Fleet is a Ship Background Package from Into the Storm (pages 154-155). It costs either 1 SP or 2 SP and grants a Talent that is determined by how many SP are spent. Note that the package also has a few nice benefits regardless of which option is selected.

If you only spend 1 SP, you gain Enemy (Imperial Navy). OK, a downer, so let's see what the other option provides.

If you spend 2 SP you gain Good Reputation (Imperial Navy). Not bad, but it makes me wonder:

Since Good Reputation has prerequisites (Peer and Fel 50), are these ignored for this Package, or do only the members of the crew that meet these Prerequisites (by having Peer (Imperial Navy) and Fel 50+) benefit from the Good Reputation (Imperial Navy)? Even if this is the case and few in the crew would benefit the Good Reputation, you still have an incentive to pay the extra 1SP (so every member fo your crew doesn't get saddled with Enemy(Imperial Navy)).

OK, so just one question.


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#2 Fgdsfg

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 12:48 AM

I do not think anyone but FFG can truly answer this one, since they are a bit inconsistent in when they write out "Even if they do not meet the prerequisites" and "If they meet the prerequisites".

That said, I see no reason why every single person associated with the ship shouldn't get the Good Reputation (Navy), since it's a matter of association, not character. And thusly, I would rule that even if someone does not meet the Prereqs., they would get it; hell, it is even mentioned in the book that Good Reputation/Peer talents should be handed out (and Enemy/Rival talents should be removed) per good roleplay or circumstance, which I would say is a good indication that the Prereqs. even by RAW on these talents in particular is a bit.. bendable.

And coming from two different games that both used this Ship Background, with two different GM's, this was never even discussed. It was just assumed to work that way. If nothing else, the description specifically says "all crew-members gain". It doesn't stipulate any other Prereq. than being a crew-member.

Interestingly, my current character has both Good Reputation (Imperial Navy) and Enemy (Imperial Navy), precisely because of this.


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#3 HappyDaze

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 01:16 AM

Fgdsfg said:

Interestingly, my current character has both Good Reputation (Imperial Navy) and Enemy (Imperial Navy), precisely because of this.

How would that even work out? I know that mechanically they just negate each other, but how would you represent that in-game? Wouldn't it be better to just have the two Talents dropped?


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#4 HappyDaze

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 01:53 AM

I think that I'm going to house rule it to be:

Implacable Foe or Steadfast Ally: When this background is selected, the players can pay 1 Ship Point or 2 Ship Points. If they pay 1 Ship Point, all crew-members suffer a -10 to all Social Interaction Tests when interacting with the Imperial Navy. If they pay 2 Ship Points, all crew-members gain a +10 to all Social Interaction Tests when interacting with the Imperial Navy.

It avoids the prerequisite issue and it might actually stack if someone already has either Enemy (Imp Navy) or Good Reputation (Imp Navy).

I am also considering a costing of 1 SP or 2 SP or 3 SP where 2 SP gets you no modifier (neither bonus nor penalty) and 3 SP gets you Steadfast Ally. I don't particularly like the the quick jump from -10 to +10 in the RAW version.


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#5 Cpt. Harkonnen

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 07:40 PM

The point of gaining Good Reputation (Imperial Navy) is part of the ships background and represents the ships history with the Imperial Navy and the deeds/battles it has participated in.  To modify it in any way completely negates the purpose of the Background.  Now, for the person who has Enemy and  Good Reputation with the Navy the two "talents" just negate each other. In a role-play sense, the Character is scum and has offended the Navy in some way in history and now he commands a prestigious Vessel of the Fleet which now negates his past "crimes"  or "offenses" of the past.  I personally think you’re reading too much in to it.  Just take it at face value and role with it.  And don’t forget, when you spend 1 or even 2 SP on that background, your screwing yourself out of starting components for your ship, don’t forget, Ship Weapons and other components cost SP, if your blowing 2 points on a Background, guess what, you’re not going to have very many guns on your ship, and if you do have guns, their probably just crappy Thunderstike (1d10+2) or Mars-pattern (1d10+1). With a crew rating of 30, you’re not going to get many hits with those, compared to spending those 2 SP on a Lance weapon that ignores Armor…

My point being, by spending 2 SP on a Background does have consequences..



#6 Fgdsfg

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 09:37 PM

HappyDaze said:

Fgdsfg said:

 

Interestingly, my current character has both Good Reputation (Imperial Navy) and Enemy (Imperial Navy), precisely because of this.

How would that even work out? I know that mechanically they just negate each other, but how would you represent that in-game? Wouldn't it be better to just have the two Talents dropped?

Well, you'd think, but from a roleplaying perspective, it actually works out well. Of course, we don't particularily roleplay our relations like that as such, but you have to remember that it's entirely possible that we'll eventually lose our ship, at which point I'll be stuck with only "Enemy" again.

From a roleplaying perspective - and this was decided before I even knew what kind of ship I was getting - my character is a highly decorated Navy Admiral that have gone AWOL and/or MIA, performing some less-than noble acts in doing so (which qualified him for his starting rank of Reaver, that netted him the aforementioned Enemy (Imperial Navy).

His entire origin actually had the potential to net him 104 insanity points on creation (killing him instantly), to boot. My GM (sadly) decided I was not allowed to roll, and said that I was starting with "the lowest insanity possible" - at 24 IP.

He still considers himself a Navy Admiral, but still have a lot of explaining to do regarding what happened to Battlegroup Vanity (the Battlegroup he lead and subsequently abandoned as they were being chewed up by chaos raiders and daemons in the Acheros Salient). So when I saw that we were starting with Good Reputation (Imperial Navy) - I wasn't directly involved in taking decisions regarding the ship, since I had already taken charge of the entire dynastic and trade warrant background - I just sorta rolled with it.

Makes perfect sense, really. Well-respected, highly decorated, but also functionally insane and wanted by navy command.

Right now we're on our way to Footfall in search of archeotech toasters after killing 400 civilians (and 2 criminals dressed as orks) on Port Wander. To be fair, though, that was mostly because the Missionary failed his Brook No Insult roll in a crowd of people and our (Untouchable and/or soulless) Seneschal threw a grenade into a china shop for no reason.


Real men earn their fun

Unified WH40kRP Ruleset Homebrew - Personal Notes
Talking Necrons. Dreadknights. Centurion Armour. Sororitas-murdering Grey Knights.
These things are dumb and do not exist. This is non-negotiable and undebatable.


#7 HappyDaze

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 05:40 AM

Cpt. Harkonnen said:

The point of gaining Good Reputation (Imperial Navy) is part of the ships background and represents the ships history with the Imperial Navy and the deeds/battles it has participated in.  To modify it in any way completely negates the purpose of the Background. 

You don't really understand my proposed change, do you? I've modified it to match other Background Packages that provide modifiers not directly tied to a Talent (like how Reaver of the Unbeholden reaches gives you Interaction Skill penalties without actually giving the Enemy Talent), but it certainly doesn't completely negate the purpose of taking Vessel of the Fleet.


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