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Cheating Overload


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#1 Chaos Pancake

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 06:47 AM

 

I have been playing this game with an overload who would not let me check the rules or read his overload cards as we were playing. He said it was a waste of time as he fully knew the rules and the other players agreed with him. We have done 3 quests and the overload won all three of them. However a lot of the things he did I thought were questionable. So I have been doing online research since we played, and it turns out I was right!!

The things I know the overload cheated with:

The overload used "Word of Misery", "Critical Blow" and "fire breath" he knocked out 3 heroes in one attack and won that quest with that move alone. However he clamed that "Word of Misery" cuased 1 fatigue for each damage and every fatigue we couldn't pay would cuase an additional damage doing as much as 10 damage to some of us! However the rules state its only one fatigue each time we are damaged not one for each damage token!

One of our heroes was carrying an objective token. The overload played "Dark Charm" taking control of our hero. He moved it all but one of the spaces and on the last move he said he could move the hero off the objective token. He then won the quest by using a goblin to carry the objective token off the board. However the rules clearly state that dropping an objective token takes an action!

By the 3rd quest the overload had 2 relics Bones of Woe and Staff of Shadows but he never said anything about them being equiped to his lieutenants. I am pretty sure carryed on using these relics even when we had defeated his lieutenants they were equiped too.

There are some other things he did that I feel were wrong but I can't find the answer to them online. So I wanted to ask here:

1) At the start of each quest the overload managed to place monsters blocking in a our heroes so the two heroes at the back couldn't do anything. With most quests is this possible?

2) One of our heroes had an heroic feat that allowed for some crazy movement. The overload said this counted as a movement action and played "Tripwire" is that right? 

3) What other things should I look out for that this kind of overload may try to do?

4) How do you think I should taticfully riase the issues that all 3 of the quests were lost because the overload cheated?

5) What do you think we should do to make the rest of the quests fair without having to start again?



#2 Robin

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 07:16 AM

Chaos Pancake said:

1) At the start of each quest the overload managed to place monsters blocking in a our heroes so the two heroes at the back couldn't do anything. With most quests is this possible?

2) One of our heroes had an heroic feat that allowed for some crazy movement. The overload said this counted as a movement action and played "Tripwire" is that right? 

3) What other things should I look out for that this kind of overload may try to do?

4) How do you think I should taticfully riase the issues that all 3 of the quests were lost because the overload cheated?

5) What do you think we should do to make the rest of the quests fair without having to start again?

1) That is common play. Monsters are usefull "meat walls"

2) It is not a movement action. The OL was wrong.

Now, your OL has been wrong in many of his interpretations.
When there is a ruling question, there should be a friendly consensus.

If your OL is cheating, rather than misinterpreting the rules, you should stop playing with him.
Unless he asks for exceptional grace, he should not show at your gaming table anymore.
It seems that you let your OL be dysfunctional quite a moment : the more you wait, the more difficult it is to change things.
Don't hesistate to stop things now. Show no pity.
A game is about fun, not cheating or bullying.


An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered.
G. K. Chesterton

#3 Flint Lockwood

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 08:45 AM

I seriously would never play with this guy again. He sounds like a complete moron that needs some sort of deep seeded ego boost by being a bully in situation he could control. Screw that guy.



#4 Flint Lockwood

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 08:50 AM

Furthermore since in his cheating he obtained relics I would start the campaign over again with somebody else playing the OL and if he/you wish him to stay in the group make him pick a hero. 



#5 Steve-O

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 03:45 PM

Chaos Pancake said:

I have been playing this game with an overload who would not let me check the rules or read his overload cards as we were playing. He said it was a waste of time as he fully knew the rules and the other players agreed with him.

All players have full access to the rulebook and the quest guide at all times.  There are no secrets.  Absolutely nothing that you as a hero player are not allowed to read.  I can understand if people don't like you reading the rulebook at the table because it slows down the game, but in that case you should at least ask if you can read them ahead of time (or keep them after the game is over.)  You can download the rulebook and the FAQ online here and read them at your leisure, although the quest guide you'd have to get from whoever owns the game.

Clearly, your Overlord player is doing a number of things wrong.  However, he may not be aware the extent to which he is misinterpreting the rules.  I've found that people who play this way have a curious blind spot in that regard.  They insist that they know the rules already, and are thus difficult to persuade of other opinions, but often times they've actually only skimmed the rules and made a large number of unfounded assumptions based on how they think things ought ot work (and, surprise, surprise, they usually think things ought to work in a manner which benefits their role in the game.)

This would be my advice: read the rules (online if necessary) and teh next time you're sitting down to play the game, raise any concerns you have about previous games with the group.  Do this gently and politely.  Explain that you are concerned that some rules are being misinterpreted (try to avoid words like "cheat" or phrases that imply the Overlord player is doing this on purpose - maybe he is, or maybe he's just legitimately blind to what he's doing.  Either way, opening this discussion with accusations about his past behaviour is unlikely to resolve things happily.)  Point out what was done in a neutral tone and then reference the rules that say things different.

It's possible that the majority of your group will side with him (I've seen it happen), in which case you may want to bow out gracefully and find another group to play with.  If the majority are on your side, I would urge reason before wrath.  Explain to this player that you don't like the direction he's been taking and ask him if he's willing to change.  If yes, maybe things can be salvaged, if not, stop inviting him over to play.  (Yes, I'm aware that as he's the Overlord, statistically speaking, he's probably the owner of the game, but you can buy it yourself if he's not going to be coming around anymore.)

If all else fails, suggest that someone else play the Overlord role (volunteer yourself if no one else wants it.)  It would be interesting to see if this player still holds the same rules interpretations as a hero player.  That aside, though, rotating who plays the OL is a good way to give all players some perspective on the game and its rules.  I recommend that to all new players, but especially groups who are having trouble with balance concerns or rules debates.

Chaos Pancake said:

There are some other things he did that I feel were wrong but I can't find the answer to them online. So I wanted to ask here:

1) At the start of each quest the overload managed to place monsters blocking in a our heroes so the two heroes at the back couldn't do anything. With most quests is this possible?

Depending on the quest, yes.  Most monster groups are required to be set up on specifically named tiles, which may or may not be close to where the heroes begin.  I wouldn't say it's true of most quests, but some.  If in doubt, check the set up instructions in the quest guide.  Remember that all players are allowed to look at the quest guide, it says so on the inside cover in a box labeled 'Public Information."  If the Overlord player tries to tell you otherwise, ask him to read that box out loud.

Chaos Pancake said:

2) One of our heroes had an heroic feat that allowed for some crazy movement. The overload said this counted as a movement action and played "Tripwire" is that right?

Common consensus among the fans is that when an ability refers to a "move action" it specifically refers to the Move action taken on the acting player's turn.  Any other action that happens to allow the figure to move is not considered a Move Action.  If FFG intended any different, they have yet to publish an errata about it.

It should be noted that this ruling generally favours the Overlord.  Whether he realizes it or not, your OL player is actually limiting his own tactical options by calling anything that requires movement a "move action."  The ability to play tripwire on this hero hardly makes up for what he's missing out on.

Chaos Pancake said:

3) What other things should I look out for that this kind of overload may try to do?

I would hesitate to make too many assumptions about his intentions.  Some people just legitimately don't pay as much attention to what they're reading as they ought to.  Of course, I've always had a hard tiem predicting people like this, so I don't really know what you should look out for.  I would repeat my advice about having an open, honest, and calm discussion about your concerns with the way he has been playing, though.

Chaos Pancake said:

4) How do you think I should taticfully riase the issues that all 3 of the quests were lost because the overload cheated?

I wouldn't raise the point about win/loss ratio at all if I were you.  Firstly, the actual rules do allow for the Overlord to win.  He isn't some puppet master who puts up a good fight and then loses in the end.  Secondly, it is not uncommon for the Overlord to win frequently in a group of new players.  The Overlord has a shorter learning curve than the heroes.  While the misinterpretations you've descibed may have played a large part in why he actually won in these play sessions, it's also entirely possible that he would have won out anyway even if was playing the rules correctly.

In your discussion of this problem, I would recommend that you focus on the rules themselves and try to avoid as much as possible assigning blame to specific people.  Pointing fingers will only get everyone yelling at each other.  Discuss the rules, agree about how you want to play things while you aren't in the middle of playing a quest, and then go with that.  Even if the decisions you collectively make are not strictly correct by the book, the important thing to focus on is that everyone is (and should be) having fun.

Chaos Pancake said:

5) What do you think we should do to make the rest of the quests fair without having to start again?

Nothing.

No, seriously.  In the end, the entire campaign comes down to who wins the Finale.  Winner takes all, there is no scoreboard that spans the entire campaign.  Who wins quests along the way only changes the details of the story.  The OL winning artifacts gives him an edge, to be sure, but the heroes can still prevail (especially if you make sure the OL only uses them with the LTs who have them equipped from now on.)

As long as you can iron out your doubts about the rules, just continue from where you are.



#6 Flint Lockwood

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 12:09 PM

 

Steve-O here is obviously a more level-headed (and possibly more mature) individual than me. I’d have him strung up in town square, metaphorically. But I could be making assumptions about his intent like Steve here said. Call him out on what he was wrong about, especially not letting you look at the rules or cards, but give him the benefit of the doubt I suppose. I still believe you should start your campain over. 



#7 Demoncow

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 05:21 AM

Chaos Pancake said:

 

By the 3rd quest the overload had 2 relics Bones of Woe and Staff of Shadows but he never said anything about them being equiped to his lieutenants. I am pretty sure carryed on using these relics even when we had defeated his lieutenants they were equiped too.

 

I think you do not need a leutenant unless the relic states "each attack made by this leutenant gains…"

(for staff of shadows and bones of woe


Demoncow: He who has become a marauder.

#8 Dam

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 05:27 AM

Demoncow said:

I think you do not need a leutenant unless the relic states "each attack made by this leutenant gains…"

(for staff of shadows and bones of woe

No lieut, no relic of any kind:

"If the overlord has no lieutenant in a given quest, or if he opts to leave his relic

behind (see below), he receives no benefit for the relic’s abilities." (p. 22)

"A dirty mind is its own reward."


#9 Steve-O

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 11:32 AM

Demoncow said:

I think you do not need a leutenant unless the relic states "each attack made by this leutenant gains…"

That's not correct.  Relics can only be equipped by LTs, and furthermore each LT may only have one relic equipped at a time.  Any relics not equipped by an LT have no effect in this quest.






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