Jump to content



Photo

New Card Laboratory


  • Please log in to reply
9 replies to this topic

#1 Game of Pwns

Game of Pwns

    Member

  • Members
  • 30 posts

Posted 30 December 2012 - 01:28 PM

 

 

 

 

I love GoT LCG, so naturally my friends and I think about what cards we could improve upon, or create outright. Being a storyline bent player, I like to think op cards that would lend themself easily to G.R.R.M's world. Here are just a few ideas my friends and I have started. Let us know what you think about their concepts, & how balanced/unbalanced you feel they are.

 

Card 1 - "Change Your Ways"

  • Type - Plot
  • House - Any
  • Gold - 4
  • Initiative - 3
  • Claim - 1
  • Text - Choose one duplicated unique character in play. You may trade out duplicates from under that character. That character gains, "Immune to events this round, but must be chosen to satisfy claim of a lost military chllenge."
  • Idea - I am a player who carries different type of cards of the same character (i.e. King & Lord Robbert, Army drop Robb & +1 Str Robb, etc…) so I can use the one who fits best at the time. This plot card allows for a GREAT change of events. It can be used as a "King/Queen only" block too. If there is already an, "If Robb Stark is the only king in play then _____." You can cancel that out with "Change Your Ways" by making double renown Lord Robbert a King Robbert. I just see this plot doing MANY different & exciting things. We balanced it out with the claim satisfaction adendum. 
     

Card 2 - "An Agent In Place" 

  • Type - Condition
  • House - Baratheon (Possibly neutral)
  • Cost - 2
  • Text - Any Phase: Attache to an opponant's character. Once per round, you may look at a card at random from attached character's owner's hand. Then place it back into it's owner's hand.
  • Idea - Like as the small counsel, under King Robert's reign, had spies in Danenerys' camp, so does this card allow a Baratheon player to know a little about their opponant. I feel that this card could use some work.

Card 3 - "The Viper's Venom"

  • Type - Attachment
  • House - Martell
  • Cost - 2
  • Text - Attached character gains joust. Response: After you lose a challenge in which attached character participated in, kneel The Viper's Venom to give the winning character -1 Strength untill end of round. The next round give that same character - 3 strength, and is killed if strength is 0. An opponant may kneel a maester character to cancel.
  • Idea - Poisoned Spear & Venomous Blade are good, but neither of them do what The Red Viper's spear does to The Mountain in, "A Feast of Crows" like "The Viper's Venom" does. This allows for a long term effect. It balances with the option for ANY opponant to kneel a master to cancel teh -3 effect

Card 4 - "The White Cloak"

  • Type - Attachement
  • House - Neutral
  • Cost - 2
  • Text - Item: Attach to a non-King/Queen non-Maester character. Character gains Kingsguard trait & may only carry Item & Weapon Attachments. Any Phase: Kneel one influence to pay this card from hand to move it to a different character you control if you have a King/Queen in play.
  • Idea - Every highly competitive player will tell you that Kingsguard and Brotherood are the weakest agendas. This will give the KG a boost.

Card 5 - "Kingsguard Cloak Room"

  • Type - Location
  • House - Neutral
  • Cost - 3
  • Text - Marshalling: Kneel Kingsguard Cloak Room to search your deck for a Kingsguard character. If you have a King or Queen in play, or in your dead pile, you may pay influence to marshall Kingsguard characters.
  • Idea - In a Kingsguard agenda, its paramount that Kingsguard characters show up. Enter KCR.

 

Thanks for checking out our ideas. Let us know what you think, & what cards you have created!



#2 Grimwalker

Grimwalker

    Member

  • Members
  • 722 posts

Posted 31 December 2012 - 02:09 AM

Card 1 - "Change Your Ways"

There's probably some templating wording changes needed to the main mechanic.  I'd also change the gained text to "until you reveal a new plot card, chosen character is immune to events, and must be chosen for Military claim, if able."  Also, this could create a funky Queen Amidala situation where you flip this plot and all of a sudden "surprise, it wasn't Renly after all, it was a Loyal Guard (with a dupe?!) in disguise!


Card 2 - "An Agent In Place"

Definitely neutral. But wouldn't run it at 2 gold; attachments (particularly on characters, and CONDITION attachments worst of all) are about as permanent as soap bubbles, and this offers *extremely* limited benefits. Compared to Aegon's Hill or Confession or Ghost of High Heart, for 2 gold I want to look at their whole hand for a minute.

 

Card 3 - "The Viper's Venom"

Actual Burn is generally Targaryen only.  What if this were a military version of Game of Cyvasse? Kneel a Military character, your opponent kneels one as well, whoever kneels the character with the highest STR may choose and kill a character controlled by that opponent?

 

Card 4 - "The White Cloak"

Better make sure this has the "ITEM" trait, then. Do you mean for this to be paid for from hand with influence, as well as moving around in play?  If so, I'd steal text from the bannermen. "Marshalling: you may attach The White Cloak (from play or from your hand) to a unique character as an Item attachment with the text: Attached character gains "KINGSGUARD." May not be attached to a KING, QUEEN, or MAESTER character."

Though you open yourself to trait manipulation shenanigans, where they stick you with a crown and make the cloak fall off.

 

Card 5 - "Kingsguard Cloak Room"

I don't know of any effects that reference whether something is in your dead pile, though I could be wrong. And again, templating:

"Marshalling: Kneel Kingsguard Cloak Room to search your deck for a KINGSGUARD character, reveal it, and put it into your hand. Then shuffle your deck. while you control a KING or QUEEN character, you may pay any amount of KINGSGUARD characters' cost by kneeling that amount of influence."



#3 mdc273

mdc273

    Member

  • Members
  • 975 posts

Posted 02 January 2013 - 06:18 AM

Card 1
The stats are generic. I do like them as the card itself isn't necessarily powerful, it just adds variety. I would consider pushing up the initiative to what is the current average initiative. Initiative seems to be one of the few areas on plots that is inflating and it does matter with the impact that Bay of Ice can provide. (I don't know what the average initiative is right now, but it's probably a 4 or 5)
What was the reasoning behind must be satisfied for claim? Was there play-testing involved or was this a theoretical balance? The card doesn't really seem all that powerful to me (and I actually like that it's a toolbox item, so to me it's a nice card).

Card 2
Interesting. That card would definitely need extensive play-testing. It could be too expensive, too powerful, or imbalanced in any number of unexpected ways.

Card 3
I strongly dislike non-interactive removal effects. Having a Maester on the board is not counter play, it is luck. If this were a win by 4 effect, it would change how your opponent plays and be incredibly satisfying if you find a way to pull it off. As it is, the main counter play is to let your opponent go first and hope they swing or stealth by the character. Neither are reliable.
You could just make it like Ice where it's discarded for the effect.

Card 4
I like the idea, but the card does nothing. It should probably have a strength boost or a does not kneel to defend or an ability similar to Ser Arthur Dayne's.
Also, if you are making the card thematic, shouldn't there be a disadvantage to losing the cloak? Shouldn't it be returnable from the discard? Wouldn't only military characters get it?

Card 5
I can't help but laugh at the name, but I get what you're going for. Search is powerful and the only card comparable to this has a 1 gold cost and kneeling to activate the search as well as a 2 gold cost base (Wintefell Kennels I think). I would guess it should be more in line with that. The influence idea is interesting. That would require some playtesting to balance.

Also, not to be contradictory, but I have to refute what Grimwalker says about attachments. If you design a card to be viable while Tin Link exists, the card becomes more powerful when Tin Link is not in the game. Tin Link must simply be accepted as the card's weakness or you may create an overly powerful card when creating an attachment.

Why is there no card design forum? LoL.



#4 Game of Pwns

Game of Pwns

    Member

  • Members
  • 30 posts

Posted 03 January 2013 - 08:08 AM

 

 

 

 

Good advice. Good advice. Thanks for the help. Lets review the 2nd draft of some of our card ideas:

"Change Your Ways"

  • Type - Plot
  • House - Any
  • Gold - 4 
  • Initiative - 5 (Was 3)
  • Claim - 1
  • Text - Choose one duplicated unique character in play. You may trade out duplicates from under that character. That character gains, "Until you reveal a new plot card, chosen character is immune to events.
  • @Grimwalker to your Queen Amidala statement. That is a good thing to change Renly out for a Loyal Guard, if I am doing that to an opponent. I wasn't sure you were saying that as a positive or negative of the card. The plot plays to my strategy. I can play King Robb army drop early to bolster my forces, & then play "Change Your Ways" to change to Lord Robb to choose and kill for military claim. Or run Lord Robert (Double renown) & switch to 5 gold King Robert causing an extra power challenge. Or simply bring out a king or queen to cancel out an opponents "only king in play response" 
  • @mdc273 I cut the chosen for military claim from the text. I thought it took value away from the plot. I also boosted the Initiative to 5.

"An Agent In Place" 

  • Type - Condition
  • House - Neutral
  • Cost - 1
  • Text - Any Phase: Attache to an opponent's character. Once per phase, you may look at a card at random from attached character's owner's hand. Then place it back into it's owner's hand. Kneel An Agent In Place to place the chosen card on top of opponents deck.
  • I changed once per round to once per phase, & added the once per round return to top of deck ability. Does that change much for you guys? I think it gives it quite a boost. The card can now be used up to 7 times a round with the option to place the chosen card on opponents deck. Should it be into discard pile instead?

"The White Cloak"

  • Type - Item
  • House - Neutral
  • Cost - 2
  • Text - Marshaling: You may attach The White Cloak (from play or from your hand) to a unique character as an Item attachment with the text: Attached character gains "KINGSGUARD." May not be attached to a KING, QUEEN, or MAESTER characterAttached character does not kneel to defend & gains a military icon. (If character has a printed military icon they gain +1 strength
  • Made it an Item, boosted it by not kneeling for defenses and possible +1 str.
  • This pairs well with The White Book agenda.

"Kingsguard Cloak Room" Possibly change it to "Kingsuard Barracks"

  • Type - Location
  • House - Neutral
  • Cost - 2 (Was 3)
  • Text - Any Phase(Was "Marshaling:") Kneel Kingsguard Cloak Room and pay 1 gold to search your deck for a KINGSGUARD character, reveal it, and put it into your hand. Then shuffle your deck. While you control a KING or QUEEN character, you may pay any amount of KINGSGUARD characters' cost by kneeling that amount of influence.
  • @Grimwalker I took out the dead pile text.
  • Changed the gold cost to 2, added "pay 1 gold" like Winterfell Kennels.


#5 BBSB12

BBSB12

    Member

  • Members
  • 168 posts

Posted 03 January 2013 - 09:29 PM

I'd say, at this point I would go for playtesting if I were you, because tuning costs and frequency of triggers is not a design per se, but a development of a card (e.g., Magic: the Gathering has design team, development team and creativity team per set of cards they make - creativity team works on flavor and story of the set, design team designs new mechanics, cards, etc. and development team figures whether designs are even fun to play, balanced or easy to implement).

Another thing, I just realized something about card design: if you design card that is fair, why would people play it instead of cards they have? So if you tune your cards to be balanced too much (not sure if card games can have "too much balance", though), the only thing left will be flavor and I wonder how many people go for flavor in their deck recipes. In that sense it feels that card 2 has more flavor and adds to the game, while 1, 3 and 4 are more about tilting game balance in directions they improve (Kingsguard and playing different copies of same character). So out of those 4 cards I'd play 2 if it's fair, but not 1, 3 and 4.

PS. As of now card 2 is broken, 'cause this attachment pretty much says "Every turn you automatically win 1 claim intrigue no matter what and not just win but see a bunch of their cards and discard the one you hate the most." And if you get 2-3 of those in play…



#6 mdc273

mdc273

    Member

  • Members
  • 975 posts

Posted 04 January 2013 - 05:41 AM

BBSB12 has a point on the strength of cards, but there is also a side element that needs to be considered. A card that is powerful, but has no counterplay is not "fun". For the sake of this argument I will define fun as "the player has an opportunity to mitigate this card by proper play/counter play". A card like the Scourge has, in my opinion, no counter play. You either lose the character or lose cards from your hand. There is nothing I as a player can do to play around the Scourge except get lucky and draw a location removal and successfully play it.

Compare that to a card like Terminal Schemes. Terminal Schemes is easy to counter by itself. You have to defend. But now there become two elements to the existence of the card. Because I run Terminal Schemes, my opponent must play differently. I may never play Terminal Schemes, but he can no longer let me win an intrigue challenge by 4. I am now in a position where I can force him to defend challenges and kneel characters just so that he doesn't have a negative effect hit him. While it might be more satisfying playing the Terminal Schemes because of it's incredible effect, the card still has a huge impact on the game.

I agree that people will not play cards that don't have a power level that meets or exceeds current cards, but on the flip side cards should have counter play inherent in them. The cards he is suggesting are adding a dynamic to the game rather than power creeping. The Kingsguard cards try to bring up the power level on Kingsguard, but may need application outside of Kingsguard decks. The plot has a really interesting dynamic. It may never see play, but it could also see play in every deck. Not every card has to be super powered. Some utilitarian cards can add interesting new dynamics and plays to the game.

I agree, card 2 should just look at the player's hand. Once you start giving it the ability to modify the hand, it becomes way too powerful. You could try adding a stipulation for the discard based on winning an Intrigue challenge by 4 and having a Lord or Lady on the board. Something flavorful that has inherent counterplay.

I also agree the cards are probably at a point that they require playtesting more than theorycrafting. You can only get so far with theory, unfortunately.

My posts are never short…



#7 Game of Pwns

Game of Pwns

    Member

  • Members
  • 30 posts

Posted 04 January 2013 - 06:44 AM

I don't have much time to reply but I don't disagree with what was said. Do any of you have any cards that you like to add to the lab for discussion or play testing ideas for certain cards?



#8 BBSB12

BBSB12

    Member

  • Members
  • 168 posts

Posted 04 January 2013 - 01:30 PM

 

I haven't thought of exact cards, but if you are interested in adding more cards to your homemade card pool and take suggestions, I have 4 mechanics which I think could look nice in AGoT (though who knows without playtesting=):
 
1. Entourage - Character with Entourage keyword can be played as attachment to a character you control. If you do that, that character gets +X STR, where X is printed STR of entouraged character and you draw a card (possible modifications, instead of adding X STR, adds icon printed on that character and then it's a question if Entourage will cost less then character's printed cost since it's just an attachment in this case)
 
2. Garrison - Location type that allows you to look for a character (or maybe look at top X cards of your deck) and attach that character to this location. If you do, you place Y gold tokens on this location and can discard one token per round (per challenge won?). Once this card has no gold tokens on it, you can put the character in play (could be broken by default, but I just like the idea of character serving at some location, e.g. the Wall, before getting in play=)
 
3. Warship locations with Navy support mechanic. You can move one of characters in play to that location (as a cute side effect it can save from Valar=) or put in play from the location. If it's at location, it can be used only in military (power?) challenges and if you use it, you claim 1 location instead of regular claim. On top of that if location dies, character also dies. 
 
4. Some sort of location/agenda which will have text: when you play character, you can overpay its cost and put all overpayed gold tokens on it. It gets +1STR per token. Could be implemented in slightly different way for each House (e.g., it could be, overpay Y and get extra icon, overpay Y and get stealth and so on.)
 
All 4 mechanics if combined can be made in a cycle of support armies/allies (kinda the way the current cycle is introducing Naval enhancement, but in a different way)
 


#9 Game of Pwns

Game of Pwns

    Member

  • Members
  • 30 posts

Posted 17 January 2013 - 07:18 AM

At the request of some members of the GD forum, I am driving the New Card Lab to it's origional post. Here are Volumes II & III:

 

Card #6 - "Grey Goose Fletching"

  • Type - Weapon
  • House - Greyjoy
  • Cost - 1 Gold
  • Text - House Greyjoy Only. Challenge: Attached character gains deadly and Naval Support. If attached character has a printed deadly keyword, it cancels opponents deadly keyword when participating in challenges.
  • Quote - "The boar can keep his tusks & the bear it's claws. There's nothing half so mortal as a grey goose feather." — Theon Greyjoy
  • Idea - In theory, a deadly archer should cancel out a deadly swordsman or spearman. Maybe not a berserker with explosives though, "Bring him down, Legolas! Kill Him!" This ability gives a tip of the hat to the Double-Strike of MTG, but also gives excitement to the let down Thrones players feel when two deadly characters cancel out in a challenge. It also brings in the Naval Support mechanic.

Card #7 - "Podrick Payne"

  • Type - Character
  • House - Lannister
  • Cost - 1 Gold
  • STR - 1
  • Trait - Ally
  • Text - Deadly. Pay 1 gold and kneel Podrick Payne to save a noble Lannister character in play.
  • Quote - "Sir, I Mean my Lady, Sir, Ma'am. Sir..Ma'am."
  • Idea - There hasn't been a Lannister save card outside of Guilded Plate and Clansman Tyrion. This one seems worth a look into any Noble lion deck.. It uses gold like a Lannister should, and is, I think, the first pay gold and kneel Lannister ability. 

Card #8 - "The Twins"

  • Type - Land
  • House - Neutral
  • Cost - 2 Gold
  • Trait - Westeros
  • Text - Version #1 No Attachments. Challenge: Kneel The Twins. Then each player may choose and kneel 1 character they control. The character with the highest printed STR knelt in this way gains control of The Twins. 

             Unique characters you control do not kneel to defend during the first challenge initiated each round.

             2 Influence

  • Version #2 No Attachments. Challenge: Kneel The Twins. Then each player may choose and kneel 1 character they control. The character with the highest printed STR knelt in this way stands and gains, “Character does not kneel during military challenges this round.” If no one kneels a character in this way, claim 1 power for your house.
  • Version #3 No Attachments. Challenge: Kneel The Twins. Then each player may choose and kneel 1 unique non-army character they control. The character with the highest printed STR knelt in this way stands and gains, “Character does not kneel during its first challenge initiated this round.” If no one kneels a character in this way, claim 1 power for your house.
  • Idea - The Twins should have a cost that needs to be paid to possess it. Its true in GoT and in SoS. I also think that the Freys profit in power for their unique castle, this giving it the ability to gain power for your house card in Version 2 & 3. It has the essence of Into The Lists plot, but brings a very Freyesque flavor to the game. I did not eliminate army characters from this text, because armies need to cross The Twins. Particularly good in a melee, and with version #1s the 2 influence it can help any player. I really wanted to move it to 3 influence, but I didn’t think it needed as much influence as The Red Keep, Which version, or combination there of is the best?

"Walder Frey"

  • Type - Character
  • House - Neutral
  • Cost - 3 Gold
  • STR - 4
  • Trait - Lord. House Frey
  • Text - Renown. Response: After participating in a winning challenge against an opponent with a Lord or Lady character in play, you may shuffle Walder Frey into its owner’s deck to kill 1 Lord or Lady the opposing opponent controls. Limit once per round. 
  • Icons - Intrigue & Power
  • Idea - Pretty Straight forward. Tries to kill lords and ladies. The only down side to his response is that he would lose renown power for being shuffled back into its owners deck. But, its a good card to have if a lord or lady is causing too much trouble.

The White Book

 

For this volume of New Card Laboratory I will be focusing on creating cards for the Kingsguard. I do not know of many Throners who run with The White Book agenda, and for good reason. It's weak as Brann's high jumping skills. The weakness comes from the lack of support for the current Kingsguard characters. The following is a proposal of a few characters, items, and attachments that will get the ball rolling on this power hungry agenda.

New nominations for The White Book Agenda characters:

  1. Ser Osmund Kettlebalck - Ser Osmund has a lot of great directions to go in. 
  2. Ser Boros Blount
  3. Ser Loras Tyrell - Potentially a strong focal point of the Kingsguard
  4. Tommen Baratheon - Perhaps owning a text of: "Challenge: While Tommen Baratheon is standing, Kingsguard characters do not kneel to defend the first challenge initiated against them."
  5. Robert Strong - So much mystery surrounding Stronga. All of which make for some great card opportunities. 
  6. Ser Jamie Lannister - Already a Kingsguard title here, but as Lord Commander of the Kingsguard, the whole White Book agenda could hinge upon a great creation here.

What do you think these Kingsguard themed characters should do?

New Attachments Ideas:

"The White Cloak"

  • Type - Item. Armor
  • House - Neutral
  • Cost - 1 gold
  • Text - Knight Character Only. Setup. Marshalling: You may attach The White Cloak from play, or from your hand. Attached character gains the Kingsguard trait and: "Kingsguard characters you control get +1 STR."
  • Idea - The idea spawns from Blood of the Viper and gives staunch STR to Kingsguard characters while giving a knight the title as well.

"The Unemblazoned Shield"

  • Type - Weapon. Armor
  • House - Neutral
  • Cost - 1 gold
  • Text - Kingsguard character only. Setup. Character can not have its STR lowered. Discard Unemblazoned Shield to have attached character gain your choice of Renown, Deadly, or Immune to events until the end of phase.

New Location Ideas:

"White Sword Tower"

  • Type - Unique Location
  • House - Neutral
  • Cost - 2 gold
  • Text - King's Landing. Any Phase: Kneel White Sword Tower and pay 1 gold to search your deck for a Kingsguard character, reveal it, and put it into your hand. Then shuffle your deck. While you control a King or Queen character, you may pay any amount of Kingsguard characters' cost by kneeling that amount of influence.
  • Idea - In The White Book agenda, it is paramount that Kingsguard characters show up. Enter White Sword Tower. This can boost Knights of the Realm, The White Book, House of Dreams, and Siege of Winterfell

"The Round Room"

 

  • Type - Unique Location
  • House - Neutral
  • Cost - 1 gold
  • Text - Limited. X is the number of Kingsguard characters you control. +X Influence
  • Idea - There's never been a +X Influence card, and I like the idea of it! It works well with White Sword Tower's ability of influence marshalling. Targ haters beware!

Closley Related Cards:

"Hand of Gold"

  • Type - Item
  • House - Lannister
  • Cost - 1 gold
  • Text - Limited. Setup. Lannister character only. Attached character gains an intrigue icon. If attached character is Jaime Lannister, he gains stealth. (+1 Gold)
  • Idea - Kingsguard Jaime is a force to deal with. Give him an intrigue icon it gets even better.

"Lion's Head Helm"

  • Type - Unique Armor.
  • House - Lannister
  • Cost - 2 gold
  • Text - Setup. Lannister Character Only. Attached Character gains +1 STR and Infamy. If attached character is Jaime Lannister, he gains: ____________. HELP ME OUT with this last card. 

Hope to hear from you on these. Later.



#10 mdc273

mdc273

    Member

  • Members
  • 975 posts

Posted 18 January 2013 - 05:34 AM

Since you're consolidating these… I should post here!

Ser Boros - Thanks, haha.


Ser Loras - The second response allows him to claim 2 power assuming he already has won some challenges. Think of it as if his legend is growing. I didn't want to give him Renown because I didn't want him gaining power during power challenges. He's a hot-headed, untested knight. He's either going to prove himself in battle, or die trying.


Tommen - The reason I don't like doing that is that it's binary. Either your opponent does draw a counter card or they don't. It adds little game play to the game.


Ser Jaime - Again, that's a binary ability, but you totally nailed the concept. I was thinking more Jaime is renowned. He goes and does something, and he's successful. Then he uses that success to scare the **** out of someone with his Kinsguard (this is the giving them military, or not kneeling, or just about anything). But since he isn't doing it himself, he loses some of his intimidation factor. He can't just let everyone do it for him.
If you gain him power through renown, he has to participate. If you gain him power through infamy, he can sit back and be Tywin. I just don't like binary effects, so I would never suggest a card with one.


The White Cloak - Not being unique hits a repeatable binary effect. I understand it's an awesome concept, but what can my opponent do (besides draw a counter card) to play around it? The uniqueness makes it so he only has one binary effect to deal with, instead of a potential three.
I'll have to think on the anti-brotherhood. This again falls into the binary, minimal gameplay category when I think about it. Though there's definitely a way to pull it off.

Don't worry about the prints for now. I'm still trying to convince my group to try these out, hehe.






© 2013 Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc. Fantasy Flight Games and the FFG logo are ® of Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc.  All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Contact | User Support | Rules Questions | Help | RSS