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Shatter, hydra spell, reflection


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#1 darthmax

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 10:02 AM

My opponent casts shatter on my lucky charm, I then play hydra spell to shatter his bag of holding, if he casts reflection, can he then shatter another of my items instead of me shattering one of his? I'm inclined to think I'd be out two items in this situation, but some in our group are undecided

  Also, if I do shatter his bag of holding, does he have  any window of opportunity to move items around? What if I take his bag with tricks or treats? Can he empty the bag before I take it?



#2 zealot12

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 10:17 AM

Uhmm, it seems like one of you has exceeded the allowed number of spells to be cast. A player can only cast one spell during an opponent's turn, while the active player can cast as many spells as he had at the beginning of his turn.

So if he cast Shatter in the beginning of your turn, you can Hydra the Shatter spell, which will result in two items being shattered, yours and his,(and if one of those is the Bag, then anything the player had inside is discarded as well)  but he can't reflect  the Hydra back at you(since he already cast Shatter during your turn, and he's restricted to one spell only) and I don't think Reflection works with Hydra, anyway.

 

 



#3 The_Warlock

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 10:50 AM

darthmax said:

My opponent casts shatter on my lucky charm, I then play hydra spell to shatter his bag of holding, if he casts reflection, can he then shatter another of my items instead of me shattering one of his? I'm inclined to think I'd be out two items in this situation, but some in our group are undecided

Hydra Spell says to treat the Spell as it was cast individually on each Character, ignoring time and Region restrictions. An interesting question arises: who's the caster of the Spell targeted by Hydra? Hydra Spell doesn't say that the caster changes, so the caster remains the same and this means that who casts Hydra Spell doesn't get to choose how to resolve Spell duplications.

Casting Hydra Spell on Shatter doesn't allow you to choose how to resolve the Spell on other characters. The caster decides. Your opponent must discard an Object of HIS choice, not YOURS. He's still the caster of Shatter Spell.

If this is not enough to restrain your opponent from casting Reflection, he should realize that he can't do that. Hydra Spell cannot be reflected because it targets nothing (or it targets a Spell, if we make an approximation), it cannot target a Character. No point in using Reflection on Shatter, because he's already the caster.

darthmax said:

  Also, if I do shatter his bag of holding, does he have  any window of opportunity to move items around? What if I take his bag with tricks or treats? Can he empty the bag before I take it?

You're quite stubborn with this Bag of Holding question. You asked it at least twice in other posts and I answered you that the current FAQ already covers this issue. A character that loses the Bag must ditch any Objects that he can't carry on the space. He chooses what to keep and what to ditch. No one takes/destroys a Bag AND takes/destroys the Objects inside, at least not in 4th edition Rev.



#4 darthmax

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 12:13 PM

So, what does the text on BOH mean, when it says" if you lose the bag, you also lose any object stored inside" even if the items aren't destroyed along with the bag, it seems clear that the player must at least ditch any objects that were in the bag. It seems to me that even if the player has room to carry the object, they should still be lost because of the text written on BOH. I know I've asked a number of times but we keep having problems over it. When I previously asked about tricks or treats, one answer stated that the owner of the bag could shuffle his items around before the effect takes place,,,( if I remember correctly )



#5 darthmax

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 12:17 PM

Ok, I looked and u didn't say they can shuffle things around, but they choose what to ditch of items the can no longer carry. Either way, I think we have decided that in any circumstance, we will play that if u get caught slipping and lose the bag, you lose all objects inside. Period



#6 The_Warlock

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 09:03 PM

darthmax said:

 

Ok, I looked and u didn't say they can shuffle things around, but they choose what to ditch of items the can no longer carry. Either way, I think we have decided that in any circumstance, we will play that if u get caught slipping and lose the bag, you lose all objects inside. Period

 

 

I was just pointing out that there's a one-year old official FAQ list stating this, it's not my personal interpretation.

When Talisman comes to your table, you're absolutely free to do as your gaming group finds appropriate. Just remember it's a house rule, in case you start any discussion about it in the forums.

BOT, what do you think about my answer to your first question? That's not so easy as it seems and I may be wrong; for me Hydra Spell is one of the most confusing Spells ever written. There are so many combinations between Spells and only a few are easily resolved.



#7 Velhart

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 07:52 AM

darthmax said:

 

So, what does the text on BOH mean, when it says" if you lose the bag, you also lose any object stored inside" even if the items aren't destroyed along with the bag, it seems clear that the player must at least ditch any objects that were in the bag. It seems to me that even if the player has room to carry the object, they should still be lost because of the text written on BOH. I know I've asked a number of times but we keep having problems over it. When I previously asked about tricks or treats, one answer stated that the owner of the bag could shuffle his items around before the effect takes place,,,( if I remember correctly )

 

 

The bag of holding has confuse many players i think including myself.

It seems that the Bag is not so bad as it is when you lose it.

FFG has clarify it, and they have said in the faq, that if you lose the bag because of the trickster card, then you must ditch the objects that you cannot carry with you.

It's the same idea if you lose the mule, the concealed pouch or the bag of carrying.



#8 darthmax

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 09:54 AM

I agree with your answer to the first question  after reading yourvanserband releasing the spells, it's fairlyneasy to see that hydra spell and reflection wouldn't work the way we thought






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