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Meriod Flail Ability + Heavy Cloak Question


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#1 ninjaplease

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 04:54 AM

A Meriod's flail ability targets two heroes.  If one of those heroes has a Heavy Cloak and he cancels a surge rolled, does that count for both heroes?  The Heavy Cloak states that you can expend it to cancel a surge on an attack against you.  It doesn't seem right that player 1 can stop player 2 from taking the immobolize condition or extra damage because of the cloak player 1 is donning. 



#2 Steve-O

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 06:41 AM

Yes, the cancellation applies to "both players."  An attack roll is a single "thing" in the Descent mechanics.  It either has surges or it doesn't.  It does not "have surges against one target that are cancelled against another."  If an effect such as Heavy Cloak removes a surge, that surge is gone and cannot be spent against any target(s) of the attack.

If you want a thematic explanation: the Merriod's one tentacle got caught up in the cloak, distracting it such that it forgot to squirt out any paralyzing juice from any of it's tentacles.  Therefore no one got paralyzed from this attack.  A single attack is only a few seconds long, so it doesn't need to be distracted for long to foil the whole attack.

It's far easier to come up with thematic explanations for how the rules work than it is to start changing rules to suit your thematic vision.  That's a slippery slope that can quickly cause the game to degenerate.



#3 Robin

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 09:34 AM

I am not sure.

The attack roll is the same and won't change.

But defenders roll separately, so results at that level can differ.

If one defender has a special ability that annulates a surge, I don't think that the advantage would affect both defenders (or more, in the case of a blast effect or other).


An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered.
G. K. Chesterton

#4 ninjaplease

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 10:05 AM

Robin said:

The attack roll is the same and won't change.

But defenders roll separately, so results at that level can differ.

 

That's what has me confused about that particular combo.  I'm not trying to change the rules, I was just trying to interpret them.  So far I've got 1 yes and 1 no so obviously the RAW and RAI need some work on this one.  I'll stick with Yes it cancels the surge for both, but do so begrudgingly as that gives the players yet even more power if they figure out how to spam that.



#5 Triu

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 10:30 AM

Heavy Cloak: "Exhaust this card after the dice are rolled to cancel 1 {Surge} on an attack that targets you."

I believe it cancels the surge, not its effect(s).  As far as I know, there is a single attack roll & all surges are spent once for all targets.



#6 Robin

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 08:54 PM

"… that targets you" seems to limit the effect to the hero wearing the cloak.

That said, I think it would be a good question to submit to FFG.


An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered.
G. K. Chesterton

#7 Triu

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 03:45 AM

The hero wearing the cloak has to be targeted … s/he can't cancel a surge against another target.  Flail allows a monster to target two hero spaces.  Blast is less clear because you target a single hero space, then it affects additional spaces.  It has been argued that heroes in those spaces are not targeted, just affected.  [It's tough to parry a grenade.]



#8 StopGamer

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 07:00 AM

I think there is two ways:

1. Separate attacks with the same pool, cloak cancels effect of 1 surge for weaver, but second target get full effect. (you hit two creatures, one you immobilise and other closed by cloak so you spend surge not to immobilise him, but to penetreate cloak)

2. You can chose to spend surges for more accurate attack(you lost this surge and hit both targets) or dont spend surge and miss cloacked figure and immobilise another.

We prefered first way, but maybe second is more logical.

Way that  says that cloak cancels surge without OL choice for both- rather stupid for me, but as homerule can be played






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