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Eudaemonic Lore


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#1 TheHeavenlyLily

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 12:34 PM

So how would we go about including the events of the Eudaemons. Those creatures of the Warp that seek to assist mankind against the mechanations of the 4 gods and the Chaos Legions. What would distinguish the two types of daemons from each other, since even the Eudaemons seem pretty horrible.



#2 Kbobsky

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 11:34 PM

Sounds heretical. *blam*



#3 Terraneaux

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 02:20 PM

TheHeavenlyLily said:

So how would we go about including the events of the Eudaemons. Those creatures of the Warp that seek to assist mankind against the mechanations of the 4 gods and the Chaos Legions. What would distinguish the two types of daemons from each other, since even the Eudaemons seem pretty horrible.

 

You mean the demons created by Malal?



#4 TheHeavenlyLily

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 04:16 PM

Terraneaux said:

You mean the demons created by Malal?

 

Those from the book "Ravenor vs Eisenhorn: Pariah"



#5 HappyDaze

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 02:53 AM

I don't know why but I initially saw EU Daemonic Lore and was wondering what the EU knew about daemons that hadn't filtered out to the rest of the world yet.


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#6 Boss Gitsmasha

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 03:49 AM

TheHeavenlyLily said:

Those creatures of the Warp that seek to assist mankind against the mechanations of the 4 gods and the Chaos Legions.

Why, Dan Abnett. Why would you do this to us.


"Oomans are pink an' soft, not tough an' green like da Boyz. Dey'z all da same size too, so dey'z always arguin' about who's in charge, 'cos dere's no way o' tellin' c'ept fer badges an' ooniforms an' fings. When one o' dem wants ta lord it over da uvvers, 'e says 'I'm very speshul so'z you gotta worship me', or 'I know summink wot you lot don't know, so yer better lissen good'. Da funny fing is, 'arf of 'em believe it an' da uvver 'arf don't, so 'e has ta hit 'em all anyway or run fer it. Wot a lot o' mukkin' about if yer asks me. An' while dey'z all arguin' wiv each uvver over who's da boss, da Orks can clobber da lot."


#7 HappyDaze

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 04:20 AM

Boss Gitsmasha said:

TheHeavenlyLily said:

 

Those creatures of the Warp that seek to assist mankind against the mechanations of the 4 gods and the Chaos Legions.

 

 

Why, Dan Abnett. Why would you do this to us.

He's a great author for telling entertaining stories. Unfortunately, he loves to warp the hell out of the setting to do it. I can't think of a single player that's looked at the Untouchable rules and has asked "So, I ignore all of these Fellowship penalties when my limiter is turned on?" only to have to explain to them that such tech doesn't exist outside of the Abnett-verse.


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#8 Cifer

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 02:43 AM

Reminds me of the Chaos Dreadnought that was brought down via an exploding lasgun charge pack. So… why doesn't the Imperial Guard regularly use those as grenades again?



#9 Boss Gitsmasha

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 06:33 AM

Cifer said:

Reminds me of the Chaos Dreadnought that was brought down via an exploding lasgun charge pack. So… why doesn't the Imperial Guard regularly use those as grenades again?

Because Guardsmen usually have access to actual grenades, and the regiment Tech-priests are very annoyed over improper use of such equipment.


"Oomans are pink an' soft, not tough an' green like da Boyz. Dey'z all da same size too, so dey'z always arguin' about who's in charge, 'cos dere's no way o' tellin' c'ept fer badges an' ooniforms an' fings. When one o' dem wants ta lord it over da uvvers, 'e says 'I'm very speshul so'z you gotta worship me', or 'I know summink wot you lot don't know, so yer better lissen good'. Da funny fing is, 'arf of 'em believe it an' da uvver 'arf don't, so 'e has ta hit 'em all anyway or run fer it. Wot a lot o' mukkin' about if yer asks me. An' while dey'z all arguin' wiv each uvver over who's da boss, da Orks can clobber da lot."


#10 Blood Pact

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 08:17 PM

Boss Gitsmasha said:

 

TheHeavenlyLily said:

 

Those creatures of the Warp that seek to assist mankind against the mechanations of the 4 gods and the Chaos Legions.

 

 

Why, Dan Abnett. Why would you do this to us.

 

 

 

Unless someone got the teacher's edition of the book, it doesn't say anything like that.

 

And the thing with the Dreadnought is incomplete. The overloading lasgun cracked its (already damaged) armour open so a bunch of giant, venom spine shooting, cacti could finish the job.



#11 crisaron

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 07:06 AM

I would suggest using a Lovecraft style like the Old Ones, remember deamons are not "human" or alien, they are embodiment of something.

 

Those would be aspect of something completely out there. While they give a boon or help, they would also cary a heavy corruption price. To lift the veil so deep is to put your soul at the mercy of the warp.

 

They should still carry the corruption of the warp and their goal a bit like the eldar should not be to help but to manipulate for some other alien cause.

 

 



#12 Gaius

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 05:16 AM

In Chaos all things are possible… but I have to admit unless handled well this could come off as quite offputting to myself. If players and GM are happy go nuts. I wouldn't try and put their numbers anywhere near those of more conventional daemons and certainly if their are similar deities I wouldn't put their power level on par with the greater chaos gods (newborn Slaanesh, weakest of the greater gods, still tore Khaine apart!). I'd be careful about handling such entities in a game as it may end up as an factor that could divorce the game too much from more common views of 40k for a lot of people. Why must they be handled terribly different from other Warp Entities, they don't have to have the daemonic trait but I wouldn't rule it out, psychneuin and enslavers would be others I'd look at the stats of plus maybe some of the weirder Yu'vath stuff in Koronus Bestiary.

Just because they are working against Chaos or at least aspects of it doesn't mean they are on the same side but might gladly appear to be. I for one could certainly find such a thing easier to stomach if once the curtain is lifted the GM reveals that some if not all merely want to get rid of the greater chaos gods so they can take their place.

You could draw conclusions and questionable supporting evidence for the potential for such beings from a variety of sources. In the first edition of Warhammer 40k they talked about Khaela Mensha Khaine being an entity stuck somewhere between Khorne and Slaanesh but neither could claim it over the other and at an impass Khaine was more autonomous and somewhat free of their influence.

Secondly you could point towards the Liber Chaotica books from warhammer fantasy… yes it's warhammer fantasy and the universes are a lot more loosely linked than they used to be but they've got a section where an character from Warhammer Fantasy in Liber Chaotica Slaanesh draws pictures of Noise Marines so for arguements sake lets include them. In these books there is a section which refers to all gods in Warhammer Fantasy being blendings of aspects of the four major Chaos gods but the sages of the High Elves though they new this nurtured some of the more benevolent aspects to use as allies and have as gods. If the warp is the sea of souls etc and is influenced by mortals there could be some worlds where the concepts of good daemons exist and so they do at some level if enough believe and firmly enough… hey there is a world where circles are outlawed because daemons can enter reality through them, and wouldn't you know it on that world they really do!

Also look at other Warp Xenos which are more tied in with the current incarnations of Warhammer 40k such as psychneuin, enslavers, medusae and if you really want to push the boat with conspiracy theories crotalids.



#13 Blood Pact

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 02:44 AM

For the record though, since it seems only a handful have actually read the book…

They're not 'good daemons'. Certainly not good, since their every appearance has presaged them wreaking absolute destruction on their surroundings. Nor anything special appearing, as far as warp entities goes. They don't appear to be working against Chaos either, quite the opposite, since they are key players in a huge Chaos-aligned conspiracy, in the book.

They in fact seem to be nothing but an exotic form of possession, with the victims being Untouchables (and 'hollowed out', more than just inhabited). Unusual, but not unreasonable.



#14 Cynical Cat

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 10:12 PM

As has been mentioned, the true nature of Eudaemonic beings has not been established as being "good daemons".

Secondly, Abnett didn't invent Pariahs and Untouchables.  They were invented in the Inquisitor skirmish game and then used by Abnett.






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