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2 Champs and a Chump- Episode 94: Behavioral Modification


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#1 Kennon

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 12:07 PM

As a special Christmas treat, I'm uploading the newest episode a little bit early. Check out our idea on a revised Melee scoring system that might remove a bunch of the incentive to have questionable behavior during a game. Also, some thoughts on two claim plots and the worst Dobbler's Dating Disaster ever.



#2 Traitor

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 05:42 AM

I finally had the chance to listen to this after all of the holiday craziness and the idea sounds interesting to me. I wonder about a couple things though.

1. What do you do about ties?

2. What does this do to the overall champion?



#3 Dobbler

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 08:39 AM

Traitor said:

I finally had the chance to listen to this after all of the holiday craziness and the idea sounds interesting to me. I wonder about a couple things though.

1. What do you do about ties?

2. What does this do to the overall champion?

 

1) what type of ties are you referring to?  The power total at the end of the game or the overall score at the end of the game?

2) I thought Will and I discussed this in our episode, but I've been known to be wrong before so maybe we didn't.  I assume that the overall champion stays the same.  If we implemented our scoring system for Melee games, and Melee continued to follow true swiss, then each successive round would be paired according to overall total melee score.  And the top 16 would still get "overall points' as they do now.

 

Btw, did anyone listen to this episode?



#4 Kennon

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 12:49 PM

Well, 125 people have downloaded it so far, so I bet a few of them have listened. :P



#5 Vaapad

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 12:57 PM





Btw, did anyone listen to this episode?

 


 

 

Yep.  I like the melee idea a lot and am compiling a list to email to Will, but since you asked …

 

My main reaction is that I think a stronger emphasis should be placed on winning.  Certainly there exists a scenario in which the person who beats all three of his opponents in terms of power count can lose the match by ending up with fewer points, but, for my part, that should not happen often.  Unless I misunderstood, we're starting with the premise that the checklist of accomplishments exists to deter out-of-game collusion by encouraging "positive" behavior duing gameplay.  That said, by awarding only one point for each opponent a player defeats, players have little incentive to try to "win" the game -- ie claim 15 power -- when they can instead go to town on the checklist, try to rack up all those points, and forego the three points for being the first to 15.  Now, it may well be that if the checklist is properly designed, a player who completes all of his objectives will necessarily accrue power quickly.  But my initial reaction is that being the first to 15 should count for more than just 20 or 25 percent (assuming an available total of 12 or 15, i dont remember exactly what was being tossed around) of the total available amount of points.  Making each opponent defeated worth two points would bump the percentage to 40-50.  That would place, in my mind, a more appropriate emphasis on, and reward for, winning the game, while simultaneously making it hard to win the table without also focusing on the objectives.

 

My $0.02 - wish I could be at Moonboy to try out whatever you decide upon in the end!

 

edited for formatting, yet somehow failing with the quote feature

"And for the first time in hundreds of years, the night came alive with the music of dragons."

#6 Traitor

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 01:48 PM

@ Dobbler, I was thinking of the end of the game. Isn't it more likely that people could tie on total points? How would you do the pairings? Placement at the table, or point totals?

 



#7 Francisco G.

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 03:32 PM

@Traitor…..thats easy, just make some of the points that you get by the list only count if you beat 1,2, or 3 players.

 

i.e: You get 3 points for making a deal with your plot (summoning) and after receiving their part giving the character to another player. (then you receive the traitor chip!!! ….obviously you would HAVE to have chips for the list items ;) ) This points only count if you beat at least 2 other players at the end of the game.



#8 MeatLoafX

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 12:23 PM

Definitely some interesting ideas.  Of course, my mind started to make things much more complicated.  I invisioned a different set of challenges for each house - perhaps a checklist where a player selects 10 challenges before the tournament and scores each round.

Perhaps the martell one includes challenges, such as "stand a character for vengeful", "remove the same character's icons in two consecutive rounds", "return a character controlled by the opponent to your left to his/her hand", etc.

Some challenges could involve attacking specific players and some challenges could be more "universal" challenges, like "cancel a triggered effect" or "redirect a military challenge to yourself".

I don't know if it will replace melee - mainly because it would be very difficult to playtest every option if you come up with many objectives, but it would definitely at least be a fun variant. 




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