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Clan of Saar's Asteriod Home


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#1 Hugesinker

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 06:31 AM

 

As-is, the Clan of Saar has the worst Home System of any TI faction.  However, since their Home appears to be in an asteroid field, I've been thinking of playing it as a special, yellow+red-boardered system.  That is, an actual Asteroid Field.  This would set up a similar situation to what happens after the Muaat use their racial tech to cause a super-nova to happen in a system, protecting their fleet within.  The Saar couldn't activate their home system until they aquired the racial tech that allows this.  However, they could still produce there by using the Production strategy card before moving their starting Space Dock out of that system.  In exchange for that early drawback, this would give them the advantage of having a Home System that is completely safe-- unless the Nekro is in the game and gets to copy the racial tech which allows them entry.

I was just wondering if any of you had thoughts on this.  Are there some reprocussions that I am not considering which could render this unworkable?



#2 Archangelion

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 10:59 AM

I don't see any mechanical issues of the top, but my question is… why bother?

1. Their home system being controlled by an opponent doesn't hurt them.

2. As you said, their home system isn't that great for resourses.

3. Doing as you suggest basically kills the need for their one racial ability.

Basically, there is no real reason for one of your opponents to gun for your HS unless they are going for a specific objective, and they will have to go through your forces to get to it, generally. So it isn't really enticing in most situations for your opponents to go after it.

In a nutshell, your HS doesn't need any furthur protection, especially one that debilitates you further from the get go. You're already short on resources, and your set up would have the Saar player depending heavily on the Production SC. If another player gets it in the first round, an out stalls the Saar player, they could be really screwed.

I just don't see the point. It is a cool idea and all, but not really overly useful.



#3 Hugesinker

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 01:15 PM

Archangelion said:

I don't see any mechanical issues of the top, but my question is… why bother?

1. Their home system being controlled by an opponent doesn't hurt them.

2. As you said, their home system isn't that great for resourses.

3. Doing as you suggest basically kills the need for their one racial ability.

Basically, there is no real reason for one of your opponents to gun for your HS unless they are going for a specific objective, and they will have to go through your forces to get to it, generally. So it isn't really enticing in most situations for your opponents to go after it.

Well, three reasons to bother--

1) It is a perfect deterrent against a player whose objective is to take over a Home System.

2) If somebody else controls your HS, you can't build your Flagship.

3) It's good to have these planets in the bag, even though they are poor.

You have a point about the racial ability (wrt completing objectives).  One could consider this modification as an enhancement to that ability.



#4 Fnoffen

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 06:50 PM

Way too big of a drawback to not being able to activate their HS from the start imho. Sure it does't give many resources but a few is always better than none. Especially in round one. If it is to work, you'd need to replace one of their starting techs and/or units with their racial tech.

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#5 Steve-O

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 05:31 AM

Hugesinker said:

1) It is a perfect deterrent against a player whose objective is to take over a Home System.

To me, this sounds like a point against the suggested house rule.  As has been discussed, the Saar home system is not great, and the Saar can still claim VP without it, so there's really no incentive for another player to take it from him, unless he has an objective to fulfill that calls for it.

If there's an objective about claiming a Home System in the Public Objectives list and Saar is too lazy to protect his own HS, then I say he deserves to lose it.  Giving him a free pass by making it unattackable is unfair.  Besides which, as long as such an objective is not present, Saar has little reason to protect his HS anyway, as above.

Also, there are some objectives that require a player to specifically conquer his neighbour's Home System(s).  If Saar's HS can't be attacked, then a neighbour with such a Secret Objective is literally incapable of completing his SO.  I'll be the first to admit that SOs are rarely pursued in our games anyway, but there's a difference between rarely choosing to pursue it and being actually incapable of pursuing it.

Ditrii said:

3) It's good to have these planets in the bag, even though they are poor.

There are lots of sh*tty systems in the game.  Being crappy doesn't justify making them invulnerable.

I can understand why this house rule would seem thematically appropriate, but I think it's too big an adjustment for too little gain, personally.  You can do whatever you want, of course.



#6 Phoenixx

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 01:13 PM

Steve-O said:

There are lots of sh*tty systems in the game.  Being crappy doesn't justify making them invulnerable.

agreed Steve-O… I would modify the propoed rule to read "To activate Saar HS spend 2CC" thus the assailing player must work a little harder to root out those difficult to find space gypsies and their hidden home.



#7 Tawnos76

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 06:46 PM

I have never had a problem with the Saar HS.  About the only house rule my group has done is to allow the Saar to build their Hs wherever they want to as they are wanders from the start and do not care about their HS.

 



#8 Shadow

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 03:04 AM

An Asteriod field is just an Asteriod field.  The only thing special about Saar's homeworld is that is the Asteriod field they start the game at.

The Saar race is living on their ships and they just mine the Asteriod fields.

For example:  If Saar did the Action Card "Massive Transport" for their homeworld spacedock, where else could Saar move it to? 

To another Asteriod field of course.     The new Asteriod field is the new Saar homeworld.

So Saar can remove the Asteriod field from the map and put their homeworld there and put the Asteriod where their homeworld used to be.

(I do not know how many GM's will allow you to get away with that, but you can make a good case for it)      reir

 

So if  the Saar homeworld situation is a problem, just house rule that Saar can move his homeworld to another asteriod field once per game.

 

 



#9 Fnoffen

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 09:20 PM

"Just an asteroid field"? Have you even read their racial fluff text?

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#10 Shadow

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 08:31 AM

The "fluff" stuff cannot be used to justify any rule nor disprove any rule.  

The "fluff" stuff is just added to make the game background interesting. 

 

But for most GM's, if the rule is too grey, they will use the "fluff stuff" to make their ruling because they want everything to fit well together.

So you are correct, most GMs will rule agaisnt this arguement because of the Saar's official background information.

 

 

 

 

 






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