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How mush luck do you think you need to win?


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#1 lightofhand

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 12:18 PM

I have played 2 game now using tie fighters and I both games I have keep to the x-wing or x-wings tails for more then 5 turn Both game but only got them to loss they shield. But every they rolls as many damages with they rolled dodges has this happen to others? It not put me off the game I still really enjoy it but then 2 games I just have to have some luck so right. 



#2 Hrathen

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 06:05 PM

I would say less than any other table top war game I have played before.  Unlike most other table top war games I have played, skill and being ablet to predict your opponants moves play a huge part of this game.  It is in my opinion more tactical than just about any other war game I have ever played.  

Sure you can have a bad day with the dice and it can ruin an otherwise briliantly played game, and on the other hand you can roll really well and win a game that you should have lost.  That is going to be true in just about any game with dice rolling.  If you don't want that, you pretty much have Chess or Go.  

To some up I don't think the game results are overly based on dice rolls, an the added tactical elements of the game acutally make it less dependent on luch than other games I have played.


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#3 Sgt. G

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 06:45 PM

 

 be 'lucky' is nice.. but cant ever be counted on.

 

 what i love about this game ( besides being able to fly TIEs around ) is that good tactics can over come back dice.

If you can move into a postion where you can shoot and they cant.. you will win.

If you can make your oponent move where you want them to be, not where they want to be.. you will win.

If you can frustrate your oponent by never being where he needs you to be… you will win.

 

practice. it works.



#4 Joscha

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 09:43 PM

It's always about chances if you roll dice. So you can be unlucky indeed. But in this game you can improve your chances very well. Target Lock is very powerful. And I like Focus very much because of its versatility. Without those actions you're prone to dice rolls. That's why I rate actions very high (YMMV). Good flying skills are very important too as it's always crucial to escape focused attacks from more than one enemy ship.



#5 Alamoth

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 03:15 AM

I agree completely with what's already been said. While dice rolling inevitably means some luck will be involved, the game rewards skill much more than it punishes bad rolling.

The player who can predict and out-maneuver their opponent will have a very solid advantage that only exceptionally skewed die rolling could overcome.



#6 ArcticSnake

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 10:49 AM

Sgt. G said:

 

 be 'lucky' is nice.. but cant ever be counted on.

 

 what i love about this game ( besides being able to fly TIEs around ) is that good tactics can over come back dice.

If you can move into a postion where you can shoot and they cant.. you will win.

If you can make your oponent move where you want them to be, not where they want to be.. you will win.

If you can frustrate your oponent by never being where he needs you to be… you will win.

 

practice. it works.

 

This. Only EXEPTIONAL bad rolls will make you lose if you outmaneuver the opponent for most of the game.


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#7 Chairborne

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 11:03 AM

Just remember, the Dice Gods punish poor tactics!



#8 lightofhand

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 01:26 PM

the thing is i keep to tail for 5 turns 3 of them was range 1  in one game but  do have to say how he got me off he did well and finshed me off with 4 hit on his attack roll and i did not roll one dodge with 3 dice we were at range 1 when he got me. but i did get alittle hot under the coller as i beleave i should have finished he off in them 5 turns. that said i did enjoy the game and am looking forward to playing more games.



#9 Torresse

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 07:38 PM

here is a good example of being out manavuered but still being on top with guns.

In my oppinion of it, you can be the greatest tactician in the world, but no matter what, you wont be able to tell how your men will perform. you can give your men the best opportunities you can, but its up to them to take the shots. 

now in games I have out manuvered people way way way worse then this game  (which I had pathetic dice rolls on my opponents, but in the end I tend to kill my opponents when I out manuever. I think this game relies a little bit on luck, but I feel there are 3 big factors that play into effect before luck.

1st manuevering. if you can outsmart your opponent you may deny him actions which are vital to the statistics of his luck, or even deny him a shot on your ships while you have full coverage. knowing when to barrel roll or when to kiogran also makes a huge difference in this game. overlapping fire and other squad based manuevering is very important as well knowing both where you can go and where he can go makes a huge difference.

2nd Squad building. Although I must admit this game is the best Ive ever played in terms of every character being playable and anyone who can make figure out how to get a 100 point squad no matter what it is can do great. However your synergy matters allot in this game as it plays to your overall tactics. Do you keep biggs at 3 range all the time and make him useless? or do you keep him close to let him absorb hits? Now there are a few lists I have seen that are pourposefully sabataged (5 gray squad ywings). There are some lists that are incredible harder to run  then others. (7-8 tie fighters are very difficult. rounds 1-4 Im good, but round 5 all the ties break formation, round 6 I have only a few shots on various targets. then the rounds after that I try to regroup.)

3rd is knowing your opponents abilities as well as your own. knowing when to evade or when to focus/target lock is important to the statistics of luck as well knowing that Dark curse is going to be effected by a proton torpedoe more then shooting is important (you get to turn a focus into a crit against him) however if you simply damage him with the torpedoe, follow up shots might not be very effective. If you know mauler mithils abilitity, you know to try like crazy to stay out of range 1, unless your sure you can take wedge and finish him off before he can strike.

 


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#10 Duraham

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 08:11 PM

I dunno, i mean since my style of play involves the setting up of killzones, where 5+ ships will be shooting at a single target at averages of range 2, some hits are bound to get in for sure. I've had funny situations though, like a TIE surviving 5 other TIEs range1-ing it , or things like 1hp Luke Skywalker w/o actions surviving a 7 TIE killzone intact, only to get sniped to death on the very next turn from a 1 hit range 3 behind rock. You need a certain amount of luck for sure, but how you move will more than make up for your lack of luck, because you are increasing the number of opportunities.

 

eg. if i were to tell you to roll a D6 and get the number 6, if you are lucky maybe you will get it on the 1st or 2nd try. Maneuvering properly increases the number of times you get to roll that dice, for all you know you could roll it 10 times and not get a single 6, but if you were to compare rolling it 10 times with rolling it 2 times, definitely you are more likely to get at least a 6 with 10 rolls



#11 paradox23

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 10:54 PM

So far, I've only ever lost 1 game.  

During the first exchange, 5 of my ships fired at a lone academy pilot and could not kill it

In the next exchange I barely did any damage and he managed to do a 4 damage roll at my tempest pilot who unfortunately colided and had to back into an asteroid (of course my TA lost a shield on the rock. Then I managed to roll 0 evades on 4 dice (base 3 + 1 the asteroid).

Next exchange 3 of my fighters including backstabber at point blank from the side couldn't kill off his Howlrunner and my Vader rolled 0 DEF dice. 

Finally killed of 3 of his fighters by the end of the 75 min, but it still wasn't enough to pull off the 'W'.

 


It was gruesome and all I could do is shrug and say, "well that sucked for me".

 

You don't need luck to win… but it certainly can make a difference from time to time.



#12 TK4334

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 12:51 AM

33,3 % luck , 33,3 % skill , 33,3 build
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#13 godofcheese

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 01:09 AM

TK4334 said:

33,3 % luck , 33,3 % skill , 33,3 build

 

I'd be more inclined to say

10% Luck, 60% skill and 30% build

 

which is really how a game should be



#14 TK4334

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 02:08 AM

Okay let us say … 33,3 % skill, 26,3 luck, 40,3 % build.

Choosing the right build is a form of skill, too. But i lossed a lot of a games only because the force wasn´t with me.


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#15 Vorpal Sword

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 08:32 AM

Luck definitely makes a difference, particularly early in the game, but (as others have noted) it's not anywhere near as important as building and playing smart.



#16 BigDogg

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 03:35 PM

I think luck has a lot to do with it….any game with dice involved is a crap shoot…..best tactics and planning go right out the window if the dice gods are against you


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#17 RedSquadronK

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 03:54 PM

I think the dice will affect the game as much as you let them. This is both from a tactics perspective--some people will try to focus and target lock constantly to mitigate bad rolls while others may try other actions hoping for dice--and especially from a mental perspective:

In one game in my Kessel Run tournament, I was rolling pretty hot and my opponent was not getting some of the rolls he needed. He moaned and got angry and played incredibly quickly, perhaps making some mistakes. But my great attack rolls that he kept complaining about were because I had a target lock for all my ships each turn to spend on rerolling, or at least a focus to change otherwise bad rolls into good. He essentially gave up after a few turns and went through the motions until I wiped him out. This shows both me controlling the amount of luck in the game with my target locks and the luck in the game controlling him mentally with frustration.

Of course, there was also a game I played where my opponent scooped after turn 2 because I rolled 1 miss on my first 17 dice. Though even with that I don't think he was completely lost and would argue that he could have engaged me better initially, reducing the amount of good attacks I could make and upping his.

Anyway, I like using dice, it provides a constant source of excitement (and a good excuse for when I lose).



#18 paradox23

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 03:59 AM

Now that I have several more games under my belt, I think I have a decent grasp. 

I've played about 20 games against 12 different people; so far I've lost only once. I've played about 14 games as the Empire and 6 as the Rebels. My only loss was in an Empire vs Empire match. Though I freely admit luck plays a huge factor, I can't attribute this record purely to luck…

 

Luck plays a factor in 100% of the games. That said, your build gives you lots of opportunities to bend the luck in your favor and mitigate the impact of bad luck. Here are some build tips for increasing the odds of luck going your way:

  • Ships with shields significantly reduce your risk of taking lethal crits.
  • Combos like Concussion Missiles + Squad Leader to allow focus + target lock increase your odds of scoring hits.
  • Focus on offense over defense; there are greater odds of scoring hits than evades.
  • Generate as many attack rolls as possible; the more often you roll, the more likely to succeed.
  • Builds that grant additional ATK dice are more successful.
  • Secondary weapons at long range give you a mathamatical advantage.

Build without skill and experience can't negate the luck factor. You need to learn the maneuver dials to increase you odds of getting favorable position while denying your opponent shots. You need to be able to get hurt ships out of the line of fire or into positions where your opponent can't utilize their most effective weapons. 

 

I don't believe in arbitrary percentage breakdowns of luck v build v skill. The game's primary mechanic is based on die rolls; that means luck. The pilots and equipment at your disposal can be used to bend the luck curves. And skill + experience help you recognize the best actions in a given moment to grant you the best odds while possibly denying your opponent shots. Without a good build the game is mainly luck. Without experience and skill your build will not effectively mitigate luck.



#19 Acebaur

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 03:20 PM

I have to disagree with everyone who says that this game doesn't involve a lot of luck. For one thing it is a dice game which always means you can be unlucky with rolls. Secondly, this game relies more on luck than just about any other TT game I've played. (including 40K, Fantasy, Anima Tactics, and Infinity) 

I think Infinity and Anima Tactics recquire far more skill in tactics than this game does. Luck plays a signifcantly smaller factor in those games than it does this one. I have seen multiple games of X-wing where one player has out manuevered his opponent most of the game and either lost or nearly lost because of bad luck. Very rarely does something like that happen in AT or Infinity. (for reference those games use D8's and D20's respectively)

Even 40K and Fantasy rely less on luck. Though I think this is because the luck evens out over the course of a game(in general). This is because you are making dozens more dice rolls. The more you roll, the better chances you have to change your luck.

 

Now that said, I do love this game and think that if you maneuver well and build a good squad you significantly increase your chances to win. There is definitely a lot of strategy and tactics that can be had in this game and trying to predict your opponents movements is one of the best parts of the game. But to say that luck plays a minimal part in this game is simply not the case.






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