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Crypsis


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#1 signoftheserpent

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 03:58 AM

Is there any way to make this overpriced card suck less?



#2 Toloran

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 04:49 AM

It's actually not all that bad. Even taking into account the click cost for every piece of ice, it's STILL decent. It'd be bad if it was a single-type icebreaker but it's a generic (so it can break any kind of ice, including normally unbreakable ones like Data Mine)  and it's Neutral (so it can easily fit in any deck). Oh, and it's a virus so it synergizes with the anarch identity Noize.



#3 Knapik

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 05:16 AM

I can see the synergy with Noize, but each type of ice has a better icebreaker than Crypsis. Even with a limited cardpool, I don't think it's worth playing with. 



#4 Toloran

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 05:27 AM

Knapik said:

I can see the synergy with Noize, but each type of ice has a better icebreaker than Crypsis. Even with a limited cardpool, I don't think it's worth playing with. 

It's main function (other than random synergy) is as a universal fix-it. You're trading efficiency for utility. Heck, in most situations you aren't even losing much efficiency, it's only ~2 ecc more expensive on the average.

It's all about oppertunity cost. If you are trying to keep your deck as close to 45 cards as possible, and you should be, saving space is always appealing. Instead of running up to 9 cards to cover all ice eventualities (3 for each type of ice), instead you can run with less since you have a card that can fill multiple roles. This lets you use the card space freed up for other things, such as situational cards (Femme Fatal) or luxury cards that aren't required for the deck to function but still help a lot (Icecarver and most consoles).



#5 radioactivemouse

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 05:56 AM

signoftheserpent said:

Is there any way to make this overpriced card suck less?

 

If there's nothing coming out of the stack and this is the only icebreaker you have (believe me, I've seen many games like this), then it suddenly becomes the best thing you've got. 



#6 Knapik

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 06:36 AM

I think Special Order is the answer if you're not getting the ice you need, not playing with a sub-par icebreaker. I play with a couple of each type of breaker and 3 x Special Order, and hitting the type I need rarely is a problem. I can see how Crypsis is decent as it is just slightly worse than the best breakers for each type (not taking into account the wasted click), just not my style.



#7 signoftheserpent

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 07:11 AM

Toloran said:

Knapik said:

 

I can see the synergy with Noize, but each type of ice has a better icebreaker than Crypsis. Even with a limited cardpool, I don't think it's worth playing with. 

 

 

It's main function (other than random synergy) is as a universal fix-it. You're trading efficiency for utility. Heck, in most situations you aren't even losing much efficiency, it's only ~2 ecc more expensive on the average.

It's all about oppertunity cost. If you are trying to keep your deck as close to 45 cards as possible, and you should be, saving space is always appealing. Instead of running up to 9 cards to cover all ice eventualities (3 for each type of ice), instead you can run with less since you have a card that can fill multiple roles. This lets you use the card space freed up for other things, such as situational cards (Femme Fatal) or luxury cards that aren't required for the deck to function but still help a lot (Icecarver and most consoles).

But it has no strength, each piece of ice (with subroutines) costs a token as well as credits, and is expensive to play. It's a terrible card design. Even as a Virus. You still need to devote your entire turn to getting enough tokens to keep it in play if the opponent has a couple of pieces of ice.



#8 signoftheserpent

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 07:21 AM

radioactivemouse said:

signoftheserpent said:

 

Is there any way to make this overpriced card suck less?

 

 

 

If there's nothing coming out of the stack and this is the only icebreaker you have (believe me, I've seen many games like this), then it suddenly becomes the best thing you've got. 

If you're working with viruses, you don't have much deck space remaining to include many icebreakers and search engines for them.



#9 Toloran

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 07:22 AM

signoftheserpent said:

But it has no strength, each piece of ice (with subroutines) costs a token as well as credits, and is expensive to play. It's a terrible card design. Even as a Virus. You still need to devote your entire turn to getting enough tokens to keep it in play if the opponent has a couple of pieces of ice.

That's assuming you are using ONLY crypsis. Special Order helps but if you can only get once icebreaker and there are multiple types of ice on the field (which is very possible even in the early game), you are kinda out of luck. This is especially true if you don't know what ice is in play yet. It's strength is in the early to mid game not the late game. If you only have one ice on the field in the early game, you want crypsis since it'll work on any ice. In the mid to late game when you have a full suite of icebreakers, it's no longer needed. Also, running all those different icebreakers means you have less space for other spiffy programs like Magnum Opus and all those tasty virus cards.



#10 signoftheserpent

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 08:46 AM

Toloran said:

signoftheserpent said:

 

But it has no strength, each piece of ice (with subroutines) costs a token as well as credits, and is expensive to play. It's a terrible card design. Even as a Virus. You still need to devote your entire turn to getting enough tokens to keep it in play if the opponent has a couple of pieces of ice.

 

 

That's assuming you are using ONLY crypsis. Special Order helps but if you can only get once icebreaker and there are multiple types of ice on the field (which is very possible even in the early game), you are kinda out of luck. This is especially true if you don't know what ice is in play yet. It's strength is in the early to mid game not the late game. If you only have one ice on the field in the early game, you want crypsis since it'll work on any ice. In the mid to late game when you have a full suite of icebreakers, it's no longer needed. Also, running all those different icebreakers means you have less space for other spiffy programs like Magnum Opus and all those tasty virus cards.

If you are running virus cards you have no room for other icebreakers, and without icebreakers those cards are useless (since you can't get tokens without successful runs).

If you are running other icebreakers, you won't need crypsis.

I wouldn't run crypsis asd well as magnus opus because of the cost.



#11 Rince

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 09:56 AM

Crypsis is a Joker card, and as such, can be quite useful under the right circumstances. It is expansive sure, but it also breaks everything and has no limitations whatsoever. As a result, Crypsis can be the difference between win and loss if you know when to use it.



#12 Knapik

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 09:31 AM

Rince said:

Crypsis is a Joker card, and as such, can be quite useful under the right circumstances. It is expansive sure, but it also breaks everything and has no limitations whatsoever. As a result, Crypsis can be the difference between win and loss if you know when to use it.

Under the right circumstances, sure. Under other circumstances, the clicks used to power Crypsis in addition to the extra credits for using this instead of using better icebreakers can be the difference between winning and losing. I think using the best cards available along with Special Order to get those cards is the way to go.



#13 riastradh

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 05:15 AM

Knapik said:

Under the right circumstances, sure. Under other circumstances…

I'm fairly certain that this statement can prefix discussion of just about any card in the stack. They all play a role, but aren't universally and efficiently applicable in any situation.

IMO, Crypsis is a nice card to include in the core, as it fills in the holes where each runner faction is lacking; the duct tape of icebreakers. But as more cards are being released to take up some of that slack in a more cost efficient manner, it will become less desirable over time.



#14 Messenger

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 05:51 AM

riastradh said:

IMO, Crypsis is a nice card to include in the core, as it fills in the holes where each runner faction is lacking; the duct tape of icebreakers. But as more cards are being released to take up some of that slack in a more cost efficient manner, it will become less desirable over time.

Alternatively, as more data packs are released, Crypsis could also get cards that will make it more viable, useful and effective. This is not unlikely given an entire faction of Runners that use viruses as its signature. So, rather than being overtaken by newer cards, Crypsis could find new life and relevance in the future.



#15 Toloran

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 06:03 AM

Messenger said:

Alternatively, as more data packs are released, Crypsis could also get cards that will make it more viable, useful and effective. This is not unlikely given an entire faction of Runners that use viruses as its signature. So, rather than being overtaken by newer cards, Crypsis could find new life and relevance in the future.

It's also an AI and although there aren't any cards that interact with AIs specifically yet, I don't doubt there will be some in the future.



#16 Messenger

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 06:25 AM

Excellent point, Toloran.

Mechanically speaking, the only real problem with Crypsis is its need to be loaded with a virus counter beforehand, and that's only if you want to save it from destroying itself. If you only need to crack one ICE with it in order to win the game, then there's no issue.

That said, a player is more than likely to need to keep it around to break more than just one piece of ICE, whether in a single run or in multiple runs. That's when the virus counter's cost in clicks becomes painful.

As a Criminal player, I can tell you that such is the only drawback to Crypsis. Its installation cost, memory cost and operating cost is cheaper and/or more efficient than almost anything Criminals now have. Crypsis' zero strength isn't even an issue given that or when compared to Criminal icebreakers simply because the former won't cost you as much as the latter would. What stops it from completely replacing Criminal icebreakers is how it slows down the Runner player, which goes against the Criminals' speed advantage.



#17 riastradh

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 07:35 AM

Messenger said:

Alternatively, as more data packs are released, Crypsis could also get cards that will make it more viable, useful and effective. This is not unlikely given an entire faction of Runners that use viruses as its signature. So, rather than being overtaken by newer cards, Crypsis could find new life and relevance in the future.

Very true.



#18 Messenger

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 04:48 PM

I just realized: Crypsis has yet one big advantage we're overlooking: It breaks any kind of ICE.

  • That means no more searching or drawing to try to get to your other icebreakers. You don't have to wait to prepare to make runs against fortified servers. Even with Special Order around, it's still a good few steps quicker than a deck that uses several different icebreakers.
  • Similarly, as a program, it eats up only 1 memory slot but as a three-in-one, that's like 3 programs occupying the space of just 1.

I still think the cost in clicks to load a virus counter is quite a pain, but I'm beginning to wonder if Crypsis is fairer than we think. It asks us to spend time to use it but it may be no different than if we spend time on its replacements. It may be hitting the "just right" spot as far as cost and performance is concerned.



#19 Rince

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 12:44 AM

Knapik said:

Under the right circumstances, sure. Under other circumstances, the clicks used to power Crypsis in addition to the extra credits for using this instead of using better icebreakers can be the difference between winning and losing. I think using the best cards available along with Special Order to get those cards is the way to go.

Problem is that, currently, no runner faction can deal efficiently with all types of ICE (and it is not likely to change in the future as it is probably a design a choice). To deal with this, one option is to bring in out-of-faction breakers which, depending on how effective they are, can be quite expensive (by influence cost). So, if you are to build a deck that effectively deals with all types of ICE on the go, you are likely to run out of influence points very early on the deckbuilding process, preventing you from being able to do anything else with your deck.

Or, you can bring in Joker cards like Crypsis and use the loyalty points saved by them to fine-tune your deck for a more specific purpose.



#20 Messenger

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 04:07 AM

Rince said:

Problem is that, currently, no runner faction can deal efficiently with all types of ICE (and it is not likely to change in the future as it is probably a design a choice). To deal with this, one option is to bring in out-of-faction breakers which, depending on how effective they are, can be quite expensive (by influence cost). So, if you are to build a deck that effectively deals with all types of ICE on the go, you are likely to run out of influence points very early on the deckbuilding process, preventing you from being able to do anything else with your deck.

Or, you can bring in Joker cards like Crypsis and use the loyalty points saved by them to fine-tune your deck for a more specific purpose.

Not to mention pair Crypsis with the particular strengths and style of a faction so that they cover each other's weaknesses.

TBH, I'm quite grateful this topic came up. I only played Crypsis when I had it in the Shaper starter deck which I playing just to familiarize myself with the rule. As soon as I built my own deck, I ditched it. This discussion is making me reexamine the card and any possible strategies with it.






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