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TIE Fighter Efficiency


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#1 flipperlord

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 02:54 PM

I have recently picked up the game, and I have a full complement of fighters for both the Rebels and the Imperials. I have played 3 games so far, so I do not have a lot of play experience. My opponent in the third game, a friend of mine, was discouraged from playing the game ever again. This was because he feels that the standard TIE fighter is undercosted for what it does AND that the Y-wing is too weak. Does anyone have opinions about this? I have my own thoughts, but I am interested in other people's opinions.

Thanks, and happy holidays!  :)



#2 ShadowJak

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 03:06 PM

flipperlord said:

I have recently picked up the game, and I have a full complement of fighters for both the Rebels and the Imperials. I have played 3 games so far, so I do not have a lot of play experience. My opponent in the third game, a friend of mine, was discouraged from playing the game again. This was because he feels that the standard TIE fighter is undercosted for what it does AND that the Y-wing is too weak. Does anyone have opinions about this? I have my own thoughts, but I am interested in other people's opinions.

Thanks, and happy holidays!  :)

Are you playing 100pt games? The Y-Wing is a decent support ship but most people don't use more than one. Despite having a lot of HP, it isn't a tank.

The Academy Pilot a good ship but isn't as good as it seems because defence dice (3/8 evade) aren't as good as attack dice (4/8 hit). Also, having evade isn't as over powered as it seems.

Rebels rely more on synergies than the Empire. Biggs + R2-D2/R2-F2 can be ridiculous in the right hands. Garven and Dutch are also very good. Wedge tears up TIEs if he can be kept alive.

The game is fairly balanced overall. You'll find people here and on other forums who are always complaining about the "other" side being over powered but they are just whiners. Also, 3 games isn't enough to notice any sort of trend, especially among new players.



#3 Stormtrooper721

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 03:07 PM

TIE Fighters were pretty efficient until the arrival of Wave 2. Assault Missiles will now discourage the TIE swarm and the TIE attack of just 2 dice is not as threatening now when trying to hit Stealthed A-Wings at range 3 - that's 2 attack dice vs 5 defence dice! As for the Y-Wing, there is a reason it was being phased out. It's old and not maneuverable but is rugged. I think there hit the nail on the head there!


The 731st Imperial Flight School - "The Vornskrs" - 1 TIE Advanced, 3 TIE Interceptors, 10 TIE Fighters, 1 Lambda

25 Victories, 1 Defeat, 0 Draws - 76 kills versus 48 losses


#4 Stormtrooper721

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 03:11 PM

The sides are fairly balanced. In the first Kessel Run event I was in there were 6 players - 4 Rebel players and 2 Imperial players. The Rebels took the top three spots. I placed fourth and the other Imperial player placed fifth.


The 731st Imperial Flight School - "The Vornskrs" - 1 TIE Advanced, 3 TIE Interceptors, 10 TIE Fighters, 1 Lambda

25 Victories, 1 Defeat, 0 Draws - 76 kills versus 48 losses


#5 Sgt. G

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 03:12 PM

..

 

 well,

 

 i some strong opinions about this topic. The TIE being under-costed… i think it is spot on. it may seem cheap or over powered. but there are many things that need to be considered before jumping to this.

1) TIE are spose to be a zerg/swarm tactic. by canan.

2) they are also a base line..before the 2nd wave ther ewas ONLY 4 types of ship..after 2nd wave there are now 8. cheap filler role had to be taken by something.

3) for the love of George… the two side are NOT spose to be 'even' or similar. we arnt playing the same two armies with just differnt colors. by story and canon. The rebels had fewer stronger ships vs the Empires masses. And i think FFG has hit that nail on the head.

4) a few games does not make the whole experiance. Get him to play more games.trade sides. try new things.

 

 These are just my most adiment thoughts..

 

DS-137-1



#6 The_Brown_Bomber

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 03:50 PM

for rebels id recommend 4x rookie pilots. u have enough flexibility to add some r2 astromechs and or torpedos. i find that a rookie x-wing pilot is equivalent to two emperial academy pilots.

at my local kessel run event i ran wedge + red sqdron pilot + 2 rookies and was competitive vs all imperial builds i played (most were 6 ship builds, two rand vader). i also had more firepower than the 3 ship rebel teams that use a single Y-Wing :)


"There will be a substantial reward for anyone who finds the Millenium Falcon. You are free to use whatever means necessary, but I want them alive. No disintegration!".

Lord Vader


#7 Hdnggrnchrg

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 04:06 PM

The_Brown_Bomber said:

for rebels id recommend 4x rookie pilots. u have enough flexibility to add some r2 astromechs and or torpedos. i find that a rookie x-wing pilot is equivalent to two emperial academy pilots.

at my local kessel run event i ran wedge + red sqdron pilot + 2 rookies and was competitive vs all imperial builds i played (most were 6 ship builds, two rand vader). i also had more firepower than the 3 ship rebel teams that use a single Y-Wing :)

i ran wedge, Biggs-r2F2, and 2x rookies and got third out of 10. Have to agree that's the most fun rebel build to play, as every ship has decent firepower.



#8 Mako13

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 04:20 PM

From my reading on the subject, it seems to be a pretty well balanced game, though 3 x Rebel fighter units do tend to suffer against larger Imperial swarms.

It seems the 4 x fighter units do better against them, and should be fairly evenly matched.  No sense wasting points on high initiative pilots, when they aren't needed.

Y-Wings do seem to be a bit outclassed by all, so few like, or play them, compared to the other fighters.  However, I suspect with a decent allocation of points, good tactics, etc., even it should be fairly decent in a furball. 

The Ion Cannon is good for slowing the Imps down, making it easier for the X-Wings to kill them.

Haven't heard much on the subject of the one point maneuver upgrade being used on the Y-Wingt, to make all speed 1 and 2 maneuvers green.  I suspect that would be a no brainer, if you want to try to avoid Tie fighter targeting a bit, by using lots of red maneuvers.

Ion Cannons are well liked by many, and I imagine doubling up on proton torps might help them earn back a bit more respect too.

 

 

 

 



#9 The_Brown_Bomber

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 10:03 PM

biggs can really mess with their enemy target locks and their balanced attack plans. i think a y-wing with draw their fire upgrade could have a simlar roll in wave2 builds. you might even see draw their fire on Name Falcon Pilots to keep as many attacking ships in battle for as long as possible.

Chewie piloting falcon + draw their fire seems pretty decent, i know its alot of points to invest but ur strategy would be to take out at least half their points by the time the falcon blows up :)


"There will be a substantial reward for anyone who finds the Millenium Falcon. You are free to use whatever means necessary, but I want them alive. No disintegration!".

Lord Vader


#10 Garven Dreis

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 01:16 AM

I find my pure Y-Wing list does better against more elite Imperial squads than it does against larger swarm builds. Naturally it's down to the evade dice and deciding between which weapon to use. Ion Cannons are a must, and then IF you have leftover points, THEN think about Torps.



#11 flipperlord

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 04:34 AM

Thank you for all your feedback, and keep it coming!  …  a little background information: we did play a 100pt match, and he had 2 Y-wings and 2 X-wings (no unique pilots) and I had Darth Vader and 5 TIEs… I won handedly… I am glad most people feel that the TIE is balanced, because I share that opinion. They are very efficient, but they are not customizable, and they are quite weak on their own :)



#12 ShadowJak

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 05:51 AM

flipperlord said:

Thank you for all your feedback, and keep it coming!  …  a little background information: we did play a 100pt match, and he had 2 Y-wings and 2 X-wings (no unique pilots) and I had Darth Vader and 5 TIEs… I won handedly… I am glad most people feel that the TIE is balanced, because I share that opinion. They are very efficient, but they are not customizable, and they are quite weak on their own :)

Two Gold Ys (with turrets) and two Rookie Xs are only 88 points. Add in R2-D2 and that is 92 points. None of the other upgrades are very good on non-named pilots. It looks like your friend wasted 8 squad points; that is enough to upgrade a Rookie to Wedge.

Vader + 5 TIEs is at least 89 points. even if you decked out vader in upgrades, that'd only be 6-7 points and most upgrades are pretty good on Vader. Those last points would have been spent upgrading your TIEs and unless you did something dumb like run 5 Obsidian/Black pilots, you upgraded at least a couple of your TIEs to named pilots.

Your friend ran a bad list and you ran one that was at least decent; that is why he lost. He shouldn't feel too bad about it, though. Rebels are much harder to make lists for and require more skill in-game. Tell him to try a list with 3 Xs, 1 Y, and R2-D2. That's 90pts and he will have 10 left over to upgrade at least one ship to a named pilot. If he goes with 4 Xs and R2-D2, he will have 12 points to play with.



#13 Garven Dreis

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 09:21 AM

flipperlord said:

Thank you for all your feedback, and keep it coming!  …  a little background information: we did play a 100pt match, and he had 2 Y-wings and 2 X-wings (no unique pilots) and I had Darth Vader and 5 TIEs… I won handedly… I am glad most people feel that the TIE is balanced, because I share that opinion. They are very efficient, but they are not customizable, and they are quite weak on their own :)

 

It's also largely down to how well you and your opponent manoeuvre. I can understand your friends opinion, as I had a streak where I was undefeated with Imperials, but I have not won a game in week now, because my opponents have finally caught on. It's really down to experience.



#14 flipperlord

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 11:45 AM

ShadowJak said:

flipperlord said:

 

Thank you for all your feedback, and keep it coming!  …  a little background information: we did play a 100pt match, and he had 2 Y-wings and 2 X-wings (no unique pilots) and I had Darth Vader and 5 TIEs… I won handedly… I am glad most people feel that the TIE is balanced, because I share that opinion. They are very efficient, but they are not customizable, and they are quite weak on their own :)

 

 

Two Gold Ys (with turrets) and two Rookie Xs are only 88 points. Add in R2-D2 and that is 92 points. None of the other upgrades are very good on non-named pilots. It looks like your friend wasted 8 squad points; that is enough to upgrade a Rookie to Wedge.

Vader + 5 TIEs is at least 89 points. even if you decked out vader in upgrades, that'd only be 6-7 points and most upgrades are pretty good on Vader. Those last points would have been spent upgrading your TIEs and unless you did something dumb like run 5 Obsidian/Black pilots, you upgraded at least a couple of your TIEs to named pilots.

Your friend ran a bad list and you ran one that was at least decent; that is why he lost. He shouldn't feel too bad about it, though. Rebels are much harder to make lists for and require more skill in-game. Tell him to try a list with 3 Xs, 1 Y, and R2-D2. That's 90pts and he will have 10 left over to upgrade at least one ship to a named pilot. If he goes with 4 Xs and R2-D2, he will have 12 points to play with.

I did run 5 non-named pilots lol … I gave Vader concussion missiles and I gave an upgrade to a TIE (can't remember what it was) … Y is having 5 scrubs and a decked out Vader so bad? Just curious :)



#15 ShadowJak

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 05:53 PM

flipperlord said:

ShadowJak said:

 

flipperlord said:

 

Thank you for all your feedback, and keep it coming!  …  a little background information: we did play a 100pt match, and he had 2 Y-wings and 2 X-wings (no unique pilots) and I had Darth Vader and 5 TIEs… I won handedly… I am glad most people feel that the TIE is balanced, because I share that opinion. They are very efficient, but they are not customizable, and they are quite weak on their own :)

 

 

Two Gold Ys (with turrets) and two Rookie Xs are only 88 points. Add in R2-D2 and that is 92 points. None of the other upgrades are very good on non-named pilots. It looks like your friend wasted 8 squad points; that is enough to upgrade a Rookie to Wedge.

Vader + 5 TIEs is at least 89 points. even if you decked out vader in upgrades, that'd only be 6-7 points and most upgrades are pretty good on Vader. Those last points would have been spent upgrading your TIEs and unless you did something dumb like run 5 Obsidian/Black pilots, you upgraded at least a couple of your TIEs to named pilots.

Your friend ran a bad list and you ran one that was at least decent; that is why he lost. He shouldn't feel too bad about it, though. Rebels are much harder to make lists for and require more skill in-game. Tell him to try a list with 3 Xs, 1 Y, and R2-D2. That's 90pts and he will have 10 left over to upgrade at least one ship to a named pilot. If he goes with 4 Xs and R2-D2, he will have 12 points to play with.

 

 

I did run 5 non-named pilots lol … I gave Vader concussion missiles and I gave an upgrade to a TIE (can't remember what it was) … Y is having 5 scrubs and a decked out Vader so bad? Just curious :)

It is pointless. Pilot Skill is the least important stat most of the time. Having abilities is much better.



#16 Hrathen

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 06:20 PM

ShadowJak said:

flipperlord said:

 

ShadowJak said:

 

flipperlord said:

 

Thank you for all your feedback, and keep it coming!  …  a little background information: we did play a 100pt match, and he had 2 Y-wings and 2 X-wings (no unique pilots) and I had Darth Vader and 5 TIEs… I won handedly… I am glad most people feel that the TIE is balanced, because I share that opinion. They are very efficient, but they are not customizable, and they are quite weak on their own :)

 

 

Two Gold Ys (with turrets) and two Rookie Xs are only 88 points. Add in R2-D2 and that is 92 points. None of the other upgrades are very good on non-named pilots. It looks like your friend wasted 8 squad points; that is enough to upgrade a Rookie to Wedge.

Vader + 5 TIEs is at least 89 points. even if you decked out vader in upgrades, that'd only be 6-7 points and most upgrades are pretty good on Vader. Those last points would have been spent upgrading your TIEs and unless you did something dumb like run 5 Obsidian/Black pilots, you upgraded at least a couple of your TIEs to named pilots.

Your friend ran a bad list and you ran one that was at least decent; that is why he lost. He shouldn't feel too bad about it, though. Rebels are much harder to make lists for and require more skill in-game. Tell him to try a list with 3 Xs, 1 Y, and R2-D2. That's 90pts and he will have 10 left over to upgrade at least one ship to a named pilot. If he goes with 4 Xs and R2-D2, he will have 12 points to play with.

 

 

I did run 5 non-named pilots lol … I gave Vader concussion missiles and I gave an upgrade to a TIE (can't remember what it was) … Y is having 5 scrubs and a decked out Vader so bad? Just curious :)

 

 

It is pointless. Pilot Skill is the least important stat most of the time. Having abilities is much better.

I disagree knowing where other ships are makes action decisions much easier.  The number of times Vader, or a skilled TIE pilot has used barrel roll to just side step an enemy firing arc alone is a big deal.  And the advantage of shooting first should be pretty obvious.  Han Solo has seriously reduced the amount of fire he received by killing enemy TIEs before they had a chance to shoot multiple times in every game that I have used him in.

i will agree it can be a crap shoot. I once played a game with four black squadron pilots.  My opponant used all named pilots so their skill of 4 was meaningless, they might just as we'll have been academy pilots with a skill of 1.  But that was an early game and I have since learned that it is wise to have a range of skills.  (Swarm tactics is also nice)


Putting an end to this distructive conflict and bringing order to the galaxy.

#17 The_Brown_Bomber

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 08:18 PM

i ove how peoples understanding of x-wing is always evolving. i once thought swarm tactics was crap but when i saw how good it was i ran it on wedge to support rookie pilots and vadercto support academy pilots. i also recently realised how good evade tokens r and how important they r for keeping your ties in the game whereas previously i would at times go for focus and regret not rolling any focus icons when defending :(


"There will be a substantial reward for anyone who finds the Millenium Falcon. You are free to use whatever means necessary, but I want them alive. No disintegration!".

Lord Vader


#18 DailyRich

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 03:24 AM

The_Brown_Bomber said:

i ove how peoples understanding of x-wing is always evolving. i once thought swarm tactics was crap but when i saw how good it was i ran it on wedge to support rookie pilots and vadercto support academy pilots. i also recently realised how good evade tokens r and how important they r for keeping your ties in the game whereas previously i would at times go for focus and regret not rolling any focus icons when defending :(

You really learn to appreciate -- or hate -- Evade tokens in an Imperial vs. Imperial match-up!

I also love how FFG seems to be keeping an eye on what tactics are being used.  The bomb mechanics introduced in the next wave seem like a direct response to the prevalence of TIE swarms, adding a very real threat to keeping your ships bunched closed together.



#19 Stormtrooper721

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 04:28 AM

DailyRich said:

I also love how FFG seems to be keeping an eye on what tactics are being used.  The bomb mechanics introduced in the next wave seem like a direct response to the prevalence of TIE swarms, adding a very real threat to keeping your ships bunched closed together.

Seismic Charges and Assault Missiles are a real deterrent to playing swarms. Area effect weapons do indeed discourage swarms.


The 731st Imperial Flight School - "The Vornskrs" - 1 TIE Advanced, 3 TIE Interceptors, 10 TIE Fighters, 1 Lambda

25 Victories, 1 Defeat, 0 Draws - 76 kills versus 48 losses


#20 The_Brown_Bomber

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 07:07 AM

DailyRich said:

The_Brown_Bomber said:

 

i ove how peoples understanding of x-wing is always evolving. i once thought swarm tactics was crap but when i saw how good it was i ran it on wedge to support rookie pilots and vadercto support academy pilots. i also recently realised how good evade tokens r and how important they r for keeping your ties in the game whereas previously i would at times go for focus and regret not rolling any focus icons when defending :(

 

 

You really learn to appreciate -- or hate -- Evade tokens in an Imperial vs. Imperial match-up!

I also love how FFG seems to be keeping an eye on what tactics are being used.  The bomb mechanics introduced in the next wave seem like a direct response to the prevalence of TIE swarms, adding a very real threat to keeping your ships bunched closed together.

 

tactics will just change imo. swarms will still be a strong strategy and the presence of bombs will not discourage them only make people think a lil more about how they swarm and when they swarm. it might just mean they break off into 2 separate formations of 3-4 ships for some of the time and reform as a larger swarm once the threat of bombs has passed in a given game :)


"There will be a substantial reward for anyone who finds the Millenium Falcon. You are free to use whatever means necessary, but I want them alive. No disintegration!".

Lord Vader





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