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Ogryn can read?


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#1 HappyDaze

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 01:58 AM

Unless I missed something, there's nothing that says Ogryn from most homeworlds can't read and write Low (or sometimes even High) Gothic. Is this correct?

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#2 Ryath

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 05:20 AM

In Only War seeing if your character can read doesn't come from they character set he/she picks, it is always determined in the characters regimental choice.  If you pick or create a regiment from a Death World you don't start with a character that can read low gothic, too busy trying to survive on a death world.  If you pick or create a regiment from a High world you don't start with a charachter that can read low gothic, why would you bother to learn how to speak to the common man when you deal with other nobles all day long.   Those two starting worlds seem to be the only ones that affect if your character can read in low gothic.

Nothing to really stop you from removing that skill for any player that picks an ogryn to represent the fact they never learned how to no mater what unit they trained with.  They also lack any of the mental aptitudes so any skills or talents that use those are going to be at the most expenisve rate for them.



#3 HappyDaze

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 10:05 AM

I think I'm going to have a few issues with the idea that Support Specialists must share the same game effects of the homeworld of the regiment. I don't like the idea that a Commissar serving in a Death World regiment is illiterate while an Ogryn serving in an Imperial World regiment can read and write just fine. I'm pretty sure that Hammer of the Emperor is going to give us rules for regiments where differing members have differeing origins - it has the Tannith after all - but does it really have to be harder than just having some select a different homeworld?


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#4 WittyDroog

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 12:26 AM

You're forgetting the Ogryn has a comrade, who likely can read for him. Sure there's no specific rules for that but comrades don't really have many rules attributed to them. That's the whole point of comrades. 

I think part of the appeal of Only War is that your team is united in their Regiment and share those rules across the board. I agree with you about support specialties but I feel weird about support specialties to start with (luckily most of my players seemed to flock to the normal stock so I don't have to worry about it).

But just because the rules say one thing doesn't mean you HAVE to follow it. If you're the GM you can totally decide who can read and who doesn't, and if you're not the GM you can make your case to your GM and maybe they'll agree. Literacy isn't that signifigant of a detail to me honestly when you consider an Ogryn in a regiment of literate Guard is going to be able to have someone (like his commrade) read for him. That said if you don't like the idea of a Commisar from a Death World being illiterate because he likely learned a thing or two at the Schola (alternatively, he flunked and was sent to a Death World), then change it and let him read. Unless your campaign requires tons of reading and lots of linguistics checks to dechiper low gothic I don't think it's that big of an issue to handwave.



#5 HappyDaze

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 12:45 PM

WittyDroog said:

You're forgetting the Ogryn has a comrade, who likely can read for him. Sure there's no specific rules for that but comrades don't really have many rules attributed to them. That's the whole point of comrades. 

I had not forgotten about the Comrade, but I don't really think that's the best solution. I think that allowing Support Specialists to have alternate homeworld selections is far better.


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#6 Radwraith

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 02:00 PM

Remember, An Ogrynn can get to be as intelligent as an 8 yr old. Most eight year olds can read (Unless they went to american public schools complice)



#7 WittyDroog

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 02:11 PM

HappyDaze said:

 

I had not forgotten about the Comrade, but I don't really think that's the best solution. I think that allowing Support Specialists to have alternate homeworld selections is far better.

 

 

Then shine on, you crazy diamond. The best part of RPGs is Rule 0 in which you aren't held hostage by the rules or the setting. But I think if the goal is to have Ogryns be illiterate you need to actually say they're illiterate and not just say that all Ogryns come from illiterate Regiments or something.

 

Radwraith said:

 

(Unless they went to american public schools complice)

 

 

Womp womp. I live on a Death World, evidently.



#8 OomieCrusha

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 05:42 PM

Don't forget that language skills can be bought with the starting experience.



#9 Robomummy

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 04:54 PM

Radwraith said:

Remember, An Ogrynn can get to be as intelligent as an 8 yr old. Most eight year olds can read (Unless they went to american public schools complice)

actually most Ogryns are unable to read:

- Nork Deddog- By Ogryn standards, Nork is a genius, given that he can write his name (or at least the first initial of it), count as high as four and even speak in short sentences. These are rare (if not unique) achievements in Ogryn development. (Taken from Imperial guard codex)

-"It is likely Ogrys have not been issued a copy of this book because they probably wouldnt understand a single word," (Taken from the Imperial Infantryman's Uplifitng Primer)

-"The most intelligent individuals among Ogryns undergo an augmentative chemical process called Biochemical Ogryn Neural Enhancement (BONE), which increases their intelligence further and makes them ideal as sergeants (or Bone'eads) of Ogryn squads." (taken from Lexicanum, though this could be an explanation why an ogryn may be able to read simple, short orders.)

In short Ogryns are almost universally unable to read in the established fluff, though it is possible to create an ogryn who can read in the Only war rules due to it not being addressed in the rulebook.


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#10 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 05:10 PM

Well the problem here is that Ogryns as depicted in the fluff are literally low-level morons (not morons as in "he's really dumb," but literally a moron), just about animals, and are about as playable as characters as dogs would be.

So we have to compromise. PC Ogryns are freakishly smart.



#11 Magus Black

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 05:42 PM

bogi_khaosa said:

Well the problem here is that Ogryns as depicted in the fluff are literally low-level morons (not morons as in "he's really dumb," but literally a moron), just about animals, and are about as playable as characters as dogs would be.

So we have to compromise. PC Ogryns are freakishly smart.

 

That depends, the -15 penalty to Intelligence means that unless you put at least 15 points in your intelligence your well below the baseline 20 even the dumbest of Guardsmen is still somewhat smarter than a Ogryn. So I would say that while that any Ogryn of 20 or below Intelligence would (unless from one of the Deathworlds) be able to have the absolute base understanding of reading…that being that the piece of paper has 'words' on it and that it must be important for some reason.

 

If the Ogryn has an Intelligence of 25 or higher I'd say they can read on the preverbial 8th-grade level but thats a big investment from the player so I'd say "let `em".

 

My group, when have time in those days (paraguas), made an Advancement for the Bone `ead that reduced the racial penalty from -15 to -10 for 100exp though it had the prerequisite of Intelligence 20 (after all its only for those that are already smarter-than-average). But smart…er Ogryns are a matter of how close to the 'canon' material you want, as you said, if you played them at the 'expected' level of intelligence then it would be no different than roleplaying a dog…and a rather stupid dog at that.avergonzado_alegre



#12 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 05:49 PM

Well you could start out with a 25 Int in theory (28 if you get a +3 Int from Regiment), which is higher than the minimum 22 for a Guardsman.

I figure an Ogryn can read a little bit, 5th-grade level maybe. An OW Ogryn I mean, not an IG Codex Ogryn ;)



#13 torque42

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 09:35 PM

Abhuman stupidity may be exaggerated. This is the Imperium after all. The uplifting primer has orks illustrated as rather small, and there's no such thing as a commando :-P It wouldn't be quite as uplifting if it depicted reality.

#14 vikingwookiee

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 11:01 PM

just in terms of the OW book i'd think applying the deathworld illeracity to an ogyrn seems a decent enough start. Like alot of us have said if a player invests heavily in making there ogryn read or write then thats their lookout and i think fair enough. With that Int detriment (-15) they are not going to be the mental life and soul of the party at any rate so even the "skill" to read is not going to make them the sharpest knife in the squad.






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