Jump to content



Photo

Accurate quality far too good


  • Please log in to reply
9 replies to this topic

#1 Plushy

Plushy

    Member

  • Members
  • 810 posts

Posted 21 December 2012 - 10:39 PM

The way the Accurate weapon quality is written makes it a little absurd.

Let me show you how.

Standard Stan (a Weapon Specialist) has a Ballistic Skill of 30, the average for a starting character. He raised that by 5 for his Specialization. Now, let's hand him a Sniper Rifle.

Stan takes a Half Action to Aim, gaining a +10 to hit. The Accurate quality on his gun boosts that to a +20. He then must fire it Single Shot, as his Sniper Rifle lacks another mode of fire, raising it to +30. He's now rolling under a 65 to hit (at character creation!), with any roll under 45 dealing 3d10+4 Pen 3 (average damage on that is 17).

 

With just his starting XP, he can raise his BS to 45, bringing all this math up to 75. If he keeps throwing XP at it, and acquires the rather common (Scarce availability) Red-Dot Sight, you're looking at a 95% chance of hitting for 3d10+4 damage. Grabbing a Custom Grip brings us to a clean 100. While this is a rather hefty investment, it is certain to top anyone else in the party by far.

I'm not prone to calling "broken," but this just seems a little too easy. A sniper rifle or long-las is going to add +30 BS almost every round, which nearly guarantees the extra damage. I'm alright with the bonus to hit, but perhaps lowering it or removing the bonus damage would be smart.

 

(Fun thought exercise: BS 40 (maximum starting) +5 (Weapon Specialist) +20 (spending XP) +10 (Single Shot) +20 (Half Aim and Accurate) +10 (Red-Dot Sight) = 105% chance to hit, before adding in possible bonuses from Regiment)


My apologies to anyone I offend; FFG staff, playtesters, and forum users alike. 

 

Please check out my Dark Heresy to Only War conversion! You can find it on the main Only War forum. I'm always looking for more people to playtest it!


#2 H.B.M.C.

H.B.M.C.

    Freelance Writer/Play-Tester

  • Members
  • 1,370 posts

Posted 21 December 2012 - 10:55 PM

Umm… it's the same as it was in Black Crusade. How has it changed? You get +1d10 for every 2 DOS. In your example you'd need 4 DOS to get the +2d10, so you'd need to roll 35 or under.

I don't see the problem, unless they somehow changed it to every DOS in the final version.

And it'd be a 95% chance to hit. 96+ is a Jam, and therefore a miss.

BYE



#3 Kasatka

Kasatka

    Member

  • Members
  • 878 posts

Posted 21 December 2012 - 11:14 PM

H.B.M.C. said:

Umm… it's the same as it was in Black Crusade. How has it changed? You get +1d10 for every 2 DOS. In your example you'd need 4 DOS to get the +2d10, so you'd need to roll 35 or under.

I don't see the problem, unless they somehow changed it to every DOS in the final version.

And it'd be a 95% chance to hit. 96+ is a Jam, and therefore a miss.

BYE

Indeed - the system may be d% but it might as well be d20 as you have a 1 in 20 chance of a jam (critical botch) most of the time.


Only the insane have strength enough to prosper.

Only those that prosper may truly judge what is sane.


#4 AtoMaki

AtoMaki

    Member

  • Members
  • 582 posts

Posted 21 December 2012 - 11:33 PM

Hmmm… I can't see the problem here. 3D10+4I Damage with Pen 3 isn't that much. Like, it can instagib a Renegade Guardsman? Sounds realistic for me. 

But at least it gives sniper weapons a much needed edge. I mean, who the hell would take a sniper rifle (crappy Dam, bad Pen, Single Fire only) without it? 



#5 Bassemandrh

Bassemandrh

    Member

  • Members
  • 188 posts

Posted 22 December 2012 - 01:12 AM

H.B.M.C. said:

Umm… it's the same as it was in Black Crusade. How has it changed? You get +1d10 for every 2 DOS. In your example you'd need 4 DOS to get the +2d10, so you'd need to roll 35 or under.

I don't see the problem, unless they somehow changed it to every DOS in the final version.

And it'd be a 95% chance to hit. 96+ is a Jam, and therefore a miss.

BYE

Just because the rules are the same in BC or if they're the same in DH doesn't mean they cant be overpowered, it just means no one have noticed it up to this point.

However i dont believe these rules to be broken. What happens when you're fighting, say 15-20 enemy renegades? you can kill one per round but they will most likely close in an kill you with just numbers.

Also as HBMC said its 1d10 per 2 degrees and 96+ is an automatic miss.



#6 H.B.M.C.

H.B.M.C.

    Freelance Writer/Play-Tester

  • Members
  • 1,370 posts

Posted 22 December 2012 - 02:43 AM

Bassemandrh said:

Just because the rules are the same in BC or if they're the same in DH doesn't mean they cant be overpowered, it just means no one have noticed it up to this point.


I didn't say they couldn't be, but my implication was that this is how Accurate has worked for a very long time now, and no one's ever called it as being 'far too good'. Because it isn't. It's what Accurate does. Without it, the weapons that have it wouldn't be worth taking.

BYE



#7 MikeV37

MikeV37

    Member

  • Members
  • 10 posts

Posted 22 December 2012 - 09:15 AM

I never played Black Crusade, although I played Rogue trader and Dark Heresy, and In those it was always Either an accurate weapon or a full auto weapon, with full auto having the edge.

I heard that full auto got nerfed in Black Crusade, to compensate for how melee was close to useless compared to a good burst of fire, but does this heavily tip the balance in the single shot/accurate's favor?



#8 Darth Smeg

Darth Smeg

    Lord Nitpicker

  • Members
  • 1,582 posts

Posted 22 December 2012 - 11:20 AM

No, because Accurate only works on single shot, and those tend to be dodged rather easily. 

Unlike a burst of some 4-5 hits, which need lots of DoS on that ol' Dodge test.


Tarald - The Dark Lord of Smeg

 

My House Rules for using Only War (and more) for Dark Heresy games


#9 Plushy

Plushy

    Member

  • Members
  • 810 posts

Posted 22 December 2012 - 04:43 PM

My lack of reading comprehension once again ruins my day. I completely misunderstoof how the wording on the "d10 per 2 DoS" part worked.

Whoops!


My apologies to anyone I offend; FFG staff, playtesters, and forum users alike. 

 

Please check out my Dark Heresy to Only War conversion! You can find it on the main Only War forum. I'm always looking for more people to playtest it!


#10 WittyDroog

WittyDroog

    Member

  • Members
  • 211 posts

Posted 23 December 2012 - 12:17 AM

Accurate weapons were yawn worthy in any BC I ran (Damn Chaos Marines), but in Only War I think it adds a good wallop of pain for both NPCs and PCs.

 

I mean if you have a player who's a weapon specialist and wants to go all Enemy at the Gates then let him, as others mentioned in the grand scheme of things it's not going to wreck a scenario that much, but at least it gives him a spotlight when it's his turn. You could always have a counter-sniper situation to put some heat on him, as it's going to hurt him just as much.






© 2013 Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc. Fantasy Flight Games and the FFG logo are ® of Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc.  All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Contact | User Support | Rules Questions | Help | RSS