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Getting into the game - Need help on what to buy (Axis force)


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#1 Fat Basilisk

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 12:44 AM

Hello everyone,

I was wondering if you could do me a big favor and help me make a "to buy" list for my entry into Dust Warfare. A few of my other friends are already playing and I've decided to join. At this point, I think I'll be choosing The Axis as my faction.

So here's the thing: In pretty much every experience with new table top miniature games I've gotten into, it starts out with buying some stuff you think seems cool. Then some of works for you and some of it doesn't. You stop playing with the stuff that doesn't work, then buy more stuff to fill in the gaps. Then you reach a new level of understanding in the game and pretty much now know what style of play is fun for you and the models that would be good for it. However that requires almost replacing 75% of your current collection and so you buy more.

Now, I know you probably can't bypass all of that but I'd like to mitigate as much as that process as I can. I want to buy an army that resembles what the "future me who has played this game for a year" would buy. Why? Well, because I have so many friends who each play a different game and I've already spent a ton of money buying models for the other games and going on those journeys. 

Could you please help me buy a set of models that'll get me most of the way there and won't having me rebuying an entire new army 5 months from now? I really would like to save money this time. :)

So here's what I'm looking for: An Axis army list that I will use a shopping list. The list is made at the usual point level most people play at (I don't know what that is). It doesn't have to be the most minmax hardcore list that is the "Scissors" to most people's "Paper" and sometimes sees a "Rock". But if that's what is good then that's fine too. Mostly, I'm looking for a fun to play, well rounded list that is good for most games. True, in most games, there's no such thing as the perfect "all comers" list, I realize that. That's okay. Just a general well rounded list is okay. If you could recommend me a list like that, I'd be very grateful. 

Thanks!

 



#2 Warboss Krag

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 05:32 AM

Wow. I am shocked that I am the first to reply. Normally there are several others I'dve expected to already give their advice! (And practical advice it is, too.)

Let's start with the basics: You're going to need the Revised Basic set for Dust Tactics. It includes the dice, some small terrain bits, and the all-round omnimech (as it were) of the Germans (NOT the 'Axis.' There is NOTHING but Germans available yet; their list doesn't even include other forces like the Allies. When I see Japanese, Italians, Romanians, Finns, or even Free Chinese, it'll be 'Axis'), the Hans MkI Walker variant. The basic set also includes the Sturmpioneeren command squad and the 'Fliegerfausters' anti-air heavy armor squad, both really useful.

Following that, the standard 'vanilla' list usually includes a regular Kommando command squad, one or more of Battle Grenadiers and Recon Grenadiers (personally I find the latter more useful than the former), a unit of Zombies or Kampfaffen Gorillas (sometimes both, depending on the points value), and at least one MkII Walker (great boxed set, comes with three weapon load-outs). Also really useful is the Specialists boxed set; the sniper team is deadly, and the Beobacher spotting team works well in conjunction with the Hans' indirect fire ability. If there was one additional unit I could suggest to this menagerie, it would be an additional Hans, but they only come in the Basic Set, darn it.

I know this isn't a list per se, but I'm certain others will provide plenty of those!



#3 Cannor

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 07:02 AM

Hey, Fat Basilisk. Welcome to Dust. :)

I was in the same situation as you earlier this year, getting into Dust and wondering what the heck to buy (I also play Axis). I've since found that the usual way to start an Axis (or Allies) army seems to be Dust Tactics Revised Core Set, Dust Warfare Core Rulebook (if you don't already have it), Medium Walker box, Spec Ops (Sniper/Observer) box, and a Command Unit box. This gives you a solid base with units that'll always come in handy.

Dust Warfare is still relatively new in the world of wargames, and there aren't any optimised lists yet (some metagames in different bits of the world are only just getting started). The main thing to keep in mind is which other units you might come across. For example, I like anti-air in my lists because I've noticed that UK players seem to like the SSU, so I usually take a Luther medium walker and the Heavy Flak Grenadiers (who come in the RCS), both of which can both put some bullets into aircraft fuel tanks. :)

Given that the "standard" point level is 300 AP, it gets hard to shoehorn in all of the units you want to field! The Force Builder is a great tool for experimenting with different lists, and the support section on the FFG site (dustwarfare.com) has unit sheets for quick reference. I'll end this post with an all-round list that I like to use when I'm not trying a wacky new list idea.

 

Dust Warfare - Force Builder
Faction: Axis ( 294 / 300 )

---  Heroes
Lara (29)

---  Sturmgrenadiere Platoon (109)
Upgrade: Improved Command (5)
Command Section: Kommandotrupp (25)
1st Section: Battle Grenadiers [Upgrade] (20)
3rd Section: Recon Grenadiers (17)
Support: MPW II-A "Luther" (30)
Support: Sniper Grenadier Team (12)

---  Blutkreuz Platoon (156)
Upgrade: Implacable (15)
Command Section: Sturmpioniere (25)
1st Section: Heavy Laser Grenadiers (35)
2nd Section: Heavy Flak Grenadiers (26)
3rd Section: Heavy Recon Grenadiers (30)
Support: LPW I-C "Hans" (25)

I hope that helps in some way.

 

 



#4 Mattador Actual

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 07:03 AM

Revised Core Set (you can sell or trade the Allies), Command Squad, Medium Walker/Wotan, Battle/Recon Grenadiers, Spec Ops, Zombies or Apes (whichever you think is cooler.  Zombie heroes available in Hero Pack, Markus availble in Seelowe expansion). 

Use Mainecoon's Force Builder to see what you like at 300 pts(common list size) or so.



#5 Fat Basilisk

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 06:47 PM

A big thanks guys! This is exactly the help I needed. I really appreciate it. I'll start ordering soon. When the models arrive I'll start painting and playing. Sure, I'll add to the collection later on down the line, but I really wanted a good solid start. I might've accidently just bought a bunch of stuff I thought "seemed" okay  and then not enjoy months of playing because I had never had an answer for someone's aircraft or whatever.

Again, thanks guys. I'm sure I'll be returning to the forum to ask more questions later, but this is a nice healthy start. :)



#6 Demitra

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 02:27 PM

The above posts are all solid, but I feel compelled to pimp the "new" medium walker kit (flamm-luther/wotan).  I followed a trajectory similar to what you described in the original post and got, among other things, two boxes of zombies and the "old" medium walker kit.  Fast foward a couple months and a double fistful of games and I rarely play the zombies and almost never field both "old" walkers.  While I attribute the lack of zombies to how they play vs how I want to play, the downfall of the "old" walker is the direct result of the "new" walker.  The flamm-luther is a versatile walker that can tackle most challenges.  While its short range (16" machine gun, 8" or 14" flamethrowers) would typically be a drawback I find it's perfectly suited to front-line support, something I can't say about any other Axis walker.  The Wotan is a more specialized but still has its place and will do a better job, IMHO, of killing enemy armor than the "old" anti-tank option (Ludwig).  Plus they're both harder targets than the "old" walkers. 



#7 Mike J

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 12:01 PM

I agree that the above posts are great advice. The only thing I can add is you might want to pick up a pair of sniper teams. They are one of the best options for dealing with Soldier 3 at range which is something Axis can have a hard time with. I give my Axis opponent fits fielding Allied Soldier 3 Jump units that leap around the table. Well, that was until the Axis snipers started appearing in force and picking them off… Kill 2 troopers and a unit of 3 is pretty much ineffective.



#8 Fat Basilisk

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 01:19 PM

So hey guys, I've been trying to piece together parts of the lists you suggested. However, I'm having a few problems.

1.) I don't want to buy the Revised Core Set just for the Hans. Any recommendations of what to get in place of the Hans? Sometime I just buy a single of by itself?

2.) Is there a box set for the Heavy Flak Grenadiers. On a few online stores I see something called the Schwer Sturmgrenadiere Command Squad (Heavy Kommandotrupp) and in it has one of those guys with the shoulder weapon that looks like a lot of barrels, but I don't see a box set with just those guys. 

 

Any assistance on where to look and what I should be looking for would be appreciated. Thanks! - Try to use the catalog names when making suggestions please. :) 



#9 blkdymnd

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 03:36 PM

Fat Basilisk said:

So hey guys, I've been trying to piece together parts of the lists you suggested. However, I'm having a few problems.

1.) I don't want to buy the Revised Core Set just for the Hans. Any recommendations of what to get in place of the Hans? Sometime I just buy a single of by itself?

2.) Is there a box set for the Heavy Flak Grenadiers. On a few online stores I see something called the Schwer Sturmgrenadiere Command Squad (Heavy Kommandotrupp) and in it has one of those guys with the shoulder weapon that looks like a lot of barrels, but I don't see a box set with just those guys. 

 

Any assistance on where to look and what I should be looking for would be appreciated. Thanks! - Try to use the catalog names when making suggestions please. :) 

Nearly all of the Revised Core are very useful for the Axis.  The Hans is there as well as the Heavy Flak Grenadiers youre looking for and Lara ( the Flak Grenadier Hero basically).  You also get Heavy Laser Grenadiers, that with the new upgrades in the Hades campaign book, became pretty useful as well.  I would recommend picking up the Revised Core as your absolute starting point.



#10 Mike J

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 06:28 PM

I have to agree - start with the revised core set.  The axis units in the revised core set (unavailable elsewhere) are great staple units - Heavy Lasers and Heavy Flaks.  Also, you get the Sturmpioniere command unit which is great if you plan to run zombies at any point.  Something else to consider is Lara, when joined to either Heavy Flaks or Heavy Recons makes for a very deadly anti-air unit (15 dice vs aircraft 2).  This gets important when you start facing SSU with multiple choppers, especially if one is a Striker.

Sadly, in Dust, each unit is currently only available from one source, be it an individual box, an expansion (where many heroes are found), or the revised core set.  Sometimes you can find individual units on eBay, but you can't count on that.



#11 Fat Basilisk

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 11:37 AM

Alright guys, I trust you. The Revised Core Set it is then!

 

I have another question. In the list that was suggested to me below, I'm assuming its meant to compliment each other. So I assume if I played a game at half the points costs, I should make a new list? Or can I just play one half of this list?

Sometimes on our game nights we play 2 vs 2 games. So I may be playing with only 150 pts when I team up with another Axis player.  Just wondering.

Again, thanks for the help.

Cannor said:

 

Dust Warfare - Force Builder
Faction: Axis ( 294 / 300 )

---  Heroes
Lara (29)

---  Sturmgrenadiere Platoon (109)
Upgrade: Improved Command (5)
Command Section: Kommandotrupp (25)
1st Section: Battle Grenadiers [Upgrade] (20)
3rd Section: Recon Grenadiers (17)
Support: MPW II-A "Luther" (30)
Support: Sniper Grenadier Team (12)

---  Blutkreuz Platoon (156)
Upgrade: Implacable (15)
Command Section: Sturmpioniere (25)
1st Section: Heavy Laser Grenadiers (35)
2nd Section: Heavy Flak Grenadiers (26)
3rd Section: Heavy Recon Grenadiers (30)
Support: LPW I-C "Hans" (25)

 

 



#12 Fat Basilisk

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 10:42 AM

Also, another quick question:


I understand the "Hans", but I'm not sure why you guys suggest the "Luther" Why not any of the other variants on that chasis? Like the "Lothar" maybe? Just curious.



#13 Warboss Krag

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 09:51 PM

The Mk 2 variants are a chancy bunch. The Loth only fires every other turn; for a game that usually ends on turn 5, this is a lot of points to dump for two shots. They're good shots, but worth 2-3 squads? No.

The Ludwig is a good machine, but for 10 more points you get the anti-armor Luther. The Germans (they are NOT Axis; I say again, I have never seen another nation represented so far!!!) are plenty good already on anti-infantry; they need all the anti-armor help they can get (with the inclusion of the Sov tanks and the KV3 walker), so most take a Luther. The normal mix is a Luther and a Hans, with maybe a Heinrich if there's 20 points left over (Sov helis hate it. So does Sov infantry). That way you have anti-armor, artillery, and some close in anti-armor with the Hans.

Man if FFG ever puts out a Hans separately, they'll sell lots of them. I could see a German force with just Hans after Hans; a platoon could get three of 'em for a mere 85 points. Damn, that's a lot of artillery fire.



#14 Maine

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 08:31 PM

Warboss Krag said:

The Germans (they are NOT Axis; I say again, I have never seen another nation represented so far!!!) 

Ok, I don't really want to derail this thread, but I think I have to step in on this.

You can keep saying that, but that doesn't change the fact that the force is called the 'Axis'.  Germans are a part of the Axis, just because the Italian and Japanese have no models yet does not diminish that fact.  This is an alternate history universe, and within that universe they are referred to as the Axis.

When/if a Japanese unit is added, it doesn't suddenly cause the army to change names.

All you are do by insisting otherwise is adding confusion to the issue.  It doesn't change anything, and it doesn't help new players in any way.



#15 Warboss Krag

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 10:20 PM

I call it what it is. Calling it Axis is like calling a walker a tank; they might both be armored fighting vehicles, but one is not the other. I just hate the pretension of calling it 'Axis' when the others haven't shown up yet.

In addition, are we going to see a "unified" Axis force when the Japanese do show up? Man, those would be some really lost forces; a Mk II walker in the Philipines, or a Japanese walker in Zverograd!

Actually, that'd be great, adding Japanese expeditionary forces to a Zverograd campaign! When Dust Studios gets the Japanese into the act, and they show up in Zverograd with everybody else, then I'll start using the term 'Axis.'



#16 Mattador Actual

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 06:15 AM

Maine said:

Warboss Krag said:

 

The Germans (they are NOT Axis; I say again, I have never seen another nation represented so far!!!) 

 

 

Ok, I don't really want to derail this thread, but I think I have to step in on this.

You can keep saying that, but that doesn't change the fact that the force is called the 'Axis'.  Germans are a part of the Axis, just because the Italian and Japanese have no models yet does not diminish that fact.  This is an alternate history universe, and within that universe they are referred to as the Axis.

When/if a Japanese unit is added, it doesn't suddenly cause the army to change names.

All you are do by insisting otherwise is adding confusion to the issue.  It doesn't change anything, and it doesn't help new players in any way.

If Krag would bother to read page 9 of the Core Rulebook:  July 1945, the Allies nuke the island of Ceylon.  August 1945, the Japanese Empire formally joins the Axis bloc.  We are currently in January 1947.  Japan is a member of the Axis, as is Italy, so Krag, please shut up, and stop calling them Germans. 

/End thread derailment.



#17 Warboss Krag

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 08:06 AM

Well, calling Germans Germans may get under your skin, but calling one part of a whole the whole thing gets under mine. I can see why Dust Studios calls them that, but until there are others - any others - in the mix, they're Germans.

It's like caling a Ford a Car.



#18 blkdymnd

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 01:32 PM

Warboss Krag said:

Well, calling Germans Germans may get under your skin, but calling one part of a whole the whole thing gets under mine. I can see why Dust Studios calls them that, but until there are others - any others - in the mix, they're Germans.

It's like caling a Ford a Car.

No, it would be like calling all of Major League Baseball, The American League.  Even though the National League are in the background, have models already (one anyway), and have a biographical presence, and such, you refuse to acknowledge their existence and insist on referring to Baseball as The American League, while everyone else refers to it by its more proper designation.  Germans are part of the Axis.  Just because the rest of the Axis aren't fully fledged in miniature form (though the Ryu is Japanese, and there are Japanese concepts in the Dust art sourcebooks), they are still present in all the background material.



#19 Maine

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 04:01 PM

Warboss Krag said:

Well, calling Germans Germans may get under your skin, but calling one part of a whole the whole thing gets under mine. I can see why Dust Studios calls them that, but until there are others - any others - in the mix, they're Germans.

It's like caling a Ford a Car.

It's one thing to simply call them Germans, it's another to be militant about it in threads started by other people, particularily new players.  Such things can be very off-putting, as you appear to be forcing your views on new people.

Call them whatever you want, my complaint is with your ranting about it.



#20 ItsUncertainWho

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 05:28 PM

What about the Italians and the various other European countries that are part of the Axis bloc? They aren't German. 






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