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Range Counters: A better way


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#1 Emirikol

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 03:15 PM

This is probably something that should have come out in a playtest, but didn't (like having talent slots 'not' on the character sheet):  Range Counters.

 

Range counters are obsolete and clunky compared to just using a "stick" for each of the PCs.  We switched to a short bit of cardboard .  We just set the mini on the card and direct it towards whatever we're focusing on.  No more counters.

 

Originally we thought of a "target" system, but I think we prefer this.

 



#2 gmanjkd

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 03:18 PM

I really like that!  It reminds me of the fantasy battle game.  Looks like it would be quick and clean.  Congrats!   Great idea!



#3 heptat

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 04:25 PM

Yep, good solution - almost exactly the same as what we use (don't have short though). We also put a number on the bands starting with close = 0. When firing missile weapons, the count of the band equals the number of misfortune dice to take as a range penalty.



#4 Emirikol

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 06:54 PM

Yes.  short shouldn't be on the drawing sample.

 

jh



#5 valvorik

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 01:00 AM

Nice and clear.  I admit our table uses tokens with Range written on them (number of manuevres to next away above, number to move closer below) and find it works fine and is flexible tracking 3 or 4 sets of targets / allies all different ranges from each other.



#6 Jericho

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 04:27 AM

valvorik said:

Nice and clear.  I admit our table uses tokens with Range written on them (number of manuevres to next away above, number to move closer below) and find it works fine and is flexible tracking 3 or 4 sets of targets / allies all different ranges from each other.

Do you have a picture of these? I'm interested.


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#7 valvorik

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 07:46 AM

If you go to my blog and the trinkets post, 2nd picture shows them stacked up.  The light washes out what's on them a bit.



#8 WrathofKaos

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 12:19 PM

One problem I've had is handling multiple "groups" of engagements and how to handle distances for individuals outside the groups.

Ex: The party runs down the road to a carrage under attack by beastmen henchmen. The elf archer hangs back to cover. A Worgor comes running down the road a head of the party, one player leaves the beastmen engagement and intercepts the Worgor. What are the distances of the elf archer that stayed back to the two engements? Can he attack both? If he was at medium range to the carrage is he now long range to the Worgor?

Inquiring minds want to know :)

 


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#9 Emirikol

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 12:40 PM

Yea, about all you can do is mark up to a "location."  

 

The problem arises with tangential people moving in.  How much space?  

 

 



#10 WrathofKaos

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 01:07 PM

Hmm … maybe just keep things easy & abstract.

(I've been thinking about this between project compiles :)

 

If you used concentric circles around the "location" it could work. If you don't use locations then just go with the first or central engagement.

Then everyone who is close to that engagement is close to each other. Keep going all the way out. This would mean someone at extreme range is at extreme range to everyone & every engagement. It does trivialize long, and make the scene feel more "exponentially" large than it may actaully be, but it may keep things moving.

Thoughts?
 


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#11 The Strolling Bones

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 03:04 PM

I just use the range ruler from the battles game and quickly assemble location on the table then just measure in inches. This makes it feel much more like the Fantasy Battles game that I love and works wonders with my players.



#12 valvorik

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 01:20 AM

Keeping "traingulated 3-somes distances from each other" is one of the purposes I use for the range tokens.

Everyone is jumped by critter - all engaged.

Someone backs off to close, close marker between minis/standups.

Someone else back off ot close, joining first? engaged with them, they say "no I move in other direction", okay close marker to engagement, medium marker to the other character.

I also use them as randomizers at times (for more impromptu encounters) - put a close, medium, long in my hand face down - player pick one, Ta dah - that's how far away the foes are you just spotted.



#13 Jericho

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 03:33 AM

valvorik said:

Keeping "traingulated 3-somes distances from each other" is one of the purposes I use for the range tokens.

Everyone is jumped by critter - all engaged.

Someone backs off to close, close marker between minis/standups.

Someone else back off ot close, joining first? engaged with them, they say "no I move in other direction", okay close marker to engagement, medium marker to the other character.

I also use them as randomizers at times (for more impromptu encounters) - put a close, medium, long in my hand face down - player pick one, Ta dah - that's how far away the foes are you just spotted.

I feel this is the "right" way to use the range system as per the RAW. Remember, WFRP is all about narrative. What is the length of the third side of a triangle? Whatever feels right considering how you visualize the scene in your head, narratively.

Just wing it, basically. After a few games, players will get used to your style and will very easily predict distances just by looking at the standups/minis and range tokens.

WFRP is designed as a game that uses intuition and gut feeling over logic and reasoning. As some players of RPGs are of the more logic minded type, it needs a while to get used to. (I'm one of those, by the way). But once you have the hang of it, it makes things so simple and flowing. It is definitely worth the effort. Some mathematical discrepancies might occur once in a while, but since everyone is immersed in the story, no one notices or cares!

Just like in the movies, actually. Movies contract and expand time and space continually through editing and lenses. Do you mind when the film is good? Not really.

In RPGs it is different, because PCs need to be able to predict how much effort they or the enemy will have to put in to engage, but you just need to make it FEEL right, not to have mathematical precision, and everyone will be happy. It works very well at my table, at least.

 

Also, remember that when action takes place in cities or other cramped environments, it's even easier. You can just say : anyone in the tavern is at close range of each other, to move to the next floor or in the street is Medium, getting to the next crossroads on either side is Long. Or somesuch.


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