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Direction of LotR LCG


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#1 jc1138

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 08:47 AM

I'm brand new to this game and so far have enjoyed what it has to offer.  I played Decipher's game, and even ME: The Wizards back in the 90's! 

So, if I have this correct, the timeline of this game jumps around from The Hobbit to the early events of Fellowship.  What are the plans to develop the storyline past this point?  I assume, with the new films coming out, that The Hobbit will loom pretty large for awhie, although they've already mined some of the biggest things, such as Smaug, but are they going to get to a point where they release expansions sequentially following the LotR's timeline?  For example, an expansion with the Black Riders hounding Frodo, Sam, Merry, and Pippin to Bree, and the next one with Aragorn joining them to help face off against the Witch King on Weathertop (these are just off the top of my head).  The game almost feels like this game is an RGP set in Middle-earth, with quests such as: "Lady Galadriel sends you on a mission to…"  Not that there's necessarily anything wrong with that, but since the game is called "Lord of the Rings" shouldn't if focus on the events of the trilogy?

(I've done some searching on this topic, but admittedly my searching skills aren't the best.)

 



#2 richsabre

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 09:20 AM

i really think its random. mirkwood then moria then gondor….no apparent long-term storyline there.

i did a poll on what people would want most next and the most voted for were harad and breeland

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#3 gokubb

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 09:27 AM

The Hobbit expansion was a special one labeled as a 'Saga' Expansion. The bulk of the game is intentionally created to provide new stories that various heroes could have taken in the Middle Earth universe that were not fully told in any of the books. However, the Saga expansions go away from that model and actually follow Tolkien's books. I assume that they will eventually create more saga expansions to follow the events in The Lord of the Rings trilogy. However, the normal focus of the adventure packs will probably remain new stories that FFG has created.



#4 jc1138

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 09:37 AM

Ok, that's good to know.  I think this is a nifty idea from FFG, being able to have their cake and eat it too in terms of sticking to Tolkien's works and deviating from them, while always staying in the setting, of course.

For my part, all things being equal (strength of cards, how well done the quests are, etc), Saga expansions would appeal to me more.  Am I alone in this?



#5 Ellareth

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 09:38 AM

As far as I can tell this game will NOT be replaying the story of the book, and I like it that way.

 

With recent Hobbit movie that just came out, there seems to be increased number of people who wish to relive the moments from the "movie", and FFG is meeting those demands by releasing "Saga Expansions".

 

But so far there is no reason to think that main Quest Cycles will retell the stories from the book.

 

There are bunch of cool stuff that happened from Bilbo's Birthday Party and Departure of Frodo.

To the East we have Easterlings from Khand and Rhune threatening the boarders of King Dale and Dain, massing just across the river Celduin, the elves of Dorwinion are under attack, while Wainraiders are retaking regions of Rhovanion.

To the South-East we have Sauron renewing his attacks on Osgiliath, Cair Andros and Ithilien.

To the South we have cruel Haradhrims marching all over Ithilien, Gondor and Haradhrims are fighting over the disputed lands of Horandor (or south gondor) across the Great River Anduin, corsairs of Umbar are raiding costal cities of Gondor such as Dol Amroth and Pelegir.

To the North we have Goblins massing in Misty Mountains, Grey Mountains, Mount Gundabad and Moria. Spiders of Mirkwood are gathering and evil in Dol Guldur grows. Lorien and Rivendell are surrounded by enemies in all sides. In Eriador, Dunedain rangers are helplessly outnumbered. Evil things now lurk ruins of Fornost and Anuminas, Burrow-downs are full of wraith and Dunedains are hopelessly outnumbered to guard what remains of the Free People of the North.

We've got Gandalf questing for the secret of Bilbo's magic ring, Aragorn hunting for Gollum, Boromir fighting for control of East Osgilaith, Halbarad trying to defend Sarn ford against the nine Nazguls.

Battle of Helms Deep and Pelenor Field are epic and cool, but there are tons of other epic things besides what you saw in the movie to explore for this card game.



#6 AjiTae

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 09:47 AM

Ellareth said:

 

To the East we have Easterlings from Khand and Rhune threatening the boarders of King Dale and Dain, massing just across the river Celduin, the elves of Dorwinion are under attack, while Wainraiders are retaking regions of Rhovanion.

 

 

 

Yeah I was actually thinking about that. It could be a likely topic for a cycle or saga expansion. The Dale trait already exists even though it's only on a couple cards, I'd like to see more of it. Only thing is, is there enough material to build a solid bunch of quests and player cards ?

Anyway, right now everything from 2940 TA to the War of the Ring is possible… so it's anyone's (educated) guess at this point.



#7 Gizlivadi

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 05:28 PM

jc1138 said:

 

Ok, that's good to know.  I think this is a nifty idea from FFG, being able to have their cake and eat it too in terms of sticking to Tolkien's works and deviating from them, while always staying in the setting, of course.

For my part, all things being equal (strength of cards, how well done the quests are, etc), Saga expansions would appeal to me more.  Am I alone in this?

 

 

 

You're not alone in this. While I enjoy having these little stories that expand on the universe of Middle Earth to places that few people actually know (especially when dealing with things that actually happened, like the hunt for Gollum),, I hope we get sooner rather than later with the proper Lotr, because, you know, the game is called Lotr Lcg. And while the game feels very Tolkien, very "Middle Earthy" (and that's the reason I love it), it doesn't quite feel like Lotr at all, as I've said, I think, numerous times before here. You could say that right now the game feels like an equivalent of a game called "The Hobbit, The Card Game" that deals mainly with the situation in, say, Rohan and Lórien at the time of The Hobbit, with a few random Bilbo and Thorin cards tossed in here and there, but with no proper context or story built around them whatsoever. As I hope we all know, The Lord of the Rings is a STORY, not a setting, and it's like, the MAIN thing in this game supposedly, and they seem to be forgetting about it or something. So yeah, i hope we get to see the trilogy soon, plus there's lots of cool stuff that only have to do with the Lord of the Rings as a story and that only happen after the trilogy starts that I would like to see on cards. 

Anyway, FFG has heavily implied that they'll do the trilogy in a series of Saga Expansions, so there you have it.


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#8 DurinIII

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 11:34 PM

I am a fan of both the actual stories and the one's FF has taken the liberty to create. Besides the fact that some of the scenarios are very difficult to defeat (even in multi-player), I have no problem with FF making up their own little "side-quests" to the big story of the One Ring. I do hope that future packs will provide players with the main story line, i.e. the hunt for the ring, and Frodo having to carry it. 



#9 Rubinon

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 02:58 AM

I love the new stories, and how they tie into the existing ones. For example, how cool is it that your group brought the book of Mazarbul into the chamber where the fellowship then found it? If they create new stories in that venue, I'll be happy.



#10 jc1138

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 04:38 AM

DurinIII said:

I am a fan of both the actual stories and the one's FF has taken the liberty to create. Besides the fact that some of the scenarios are very difficult to defeat (even in multi-player), I have no problem with FF making up their own little "side-quests" to the big story of the One Ring. I do hope that future packs will provide players with the main story line, i.e. the hunt for the ring, and Frodo having to carry it. 

It sounds like this is the prevailing opinion, and I agree with your points. 

Middle-earth at the time of Lord of the Rings is vast place, and we only see parts in the narrative, one only has to look at the map to see what I mean.  There are many areas of the map we never get to, and FFG can fill in these areas--It's been done by other game companies and formats before, with varying levels of sucess.  The problem you face deviating away from the core stories (The Hobbit, The Lord of the Rings), settings, and characters, the less it can feel like Middle-earth.  This is why I'm really glad they've decided to go with the "saga" expansions. 

FFG's extra quests are good because they can help keep things fresh, and while the main story, call it a saga set or whatever, would always appeal to me more, I can see while they are vital to keep the game alive.  The biggest problem with JUST telling the storylines from the books is what do you do after your "Mount Doom" expansion?  Decipher's popular LotR's card game faced this same problem, and they addressed it by re-structuring many of their cards, releasing new cultures by cutting up and abandoning old ones.  These were not popular decisions with many players and it was a turning point in the games popularity and not for the better.

 



#11 Gizlivadi

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 06:36 AM

jc1138 said:

 

DurinIII said:

 

I am a fan of both the actual stories and the one's FF has taken the liberty to create. Besides the fact that some of the scenarios are very difficult to defeat (even in multi-player), I have no problem with FF making up their own little "side-quests" to the big story of the One Ring. I do hope that future packs will provide players with the main story line, i.e. the hunt for the ring, and Frodo having to carry it. 

 

 

It sounds like this is the prevailing opinion, and I agree with your points. 

Middle-earth at the time of Lord of the Rings is vast place, and we only see parts in the narrative, one only has to look at the map to see what I mean.  There are many areas of the map we never get to, and FFG can fill in these areas--It's been done by other game companies and formats before, with varying levels of sucess.  The problem you face deviating away from the core stories (The Hobbit, The Lord of the Rings), settings, and characters, the less it can feel like Middle-earth.  This is why I'm really glad they've decided to go with the "saga" expansions. 

FFG's extra quests are good because they can help keep things fresh, and while the main story, call it a saga set or whatever, would always appeal to me more, I can see while they are vital to keep the game alive.  The biggest problem with JUST telling the storylines from the books is what do you do after your "Mount Doom" expansion?  Decipher's popular LotR's card game faced this same problem, and they addressed it by re-structuring many of their cards, releasing new cultures by cutting up and abandoning old ones.  These were not popular decisions with many players and it was a turning point in the games popularity and not for the better.

 

 

 

 

Yes, those are very interesting points. It's certainly a very big question of "what's next?" after Mount Doom. My only problem with Saga expansions though is that they are very, very small, in that thery're very limited in the number of player cards about said story in them. OHAUH excludes Rivendell, eagles, songs and many little things that would have been cool to see. That said, it would take, like, 3 saga expansions per book to have a full blown LOTR experience, and while I'd be cool with that, I think FFG will address this problem making player cards in regular adventure packs that are "separated" from the main narrative but that are obvious references to LOTR (Ride to Ruin, Out of Sight, etc). But take for example what they did in Meccg. I know it's a different system, but what they did was make one HUGE first set that dealt with everything imaginable from the Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit. Almost all the characters, factions, items, events were there, including Mount Doom and the One Ring, and they could still make more expansions that dealt with the far corners of Middle Earth and unknown or invented events (Harad, Rhun, the northern dragons, the blue wizards, etc). If FFG did the Return of the King at one point I don't think it would necessarily mean the game is over. There's still lots of material that doesn't relate to the trilogy at all that could be done in the game, simply as part of a different story and almost a complete different setting (Tolkien said at one point that the blue wizards most probably started secret cults and traditions in the far east that "outlasted the fall of Sauron". That would be pretty cool to see).


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#12 jc1138

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 10:17 AM

I'm liking this game so far, don't get me wrong.  Got a Core, Rhosgobel, and Emyn Muil and have played them quite a bit; beaten all scenario's solo at least once (barring Dol Guldur, but I'm trying) while I wait for the mail (I've ordered most of what there is, including another Core).

I'm just hoping FFG plans very carefully because there are many ways to mis-step with the property and game, such as:

1-Release all the cool stuff (Gandalf the White, Anduril, Theoden, Eomer, Saruman, etc) in their made up quests, leaving little for the Sagas.  This could result in it feeling like Middle-earth: the Alternate Universe. 

2-Releasing all the cool stuff from the lore in the Saga packs and making them inaccessable for regular play, sort of how the Treasure cards were done for the first Hobbit expansion. 

3-Either way, releasing the high-profile cards too fast.  This was a problem with ME:TW CCG.  They put all the important elements from the lore into their first expansion, and the only way to keep players into the game was to shuffle around game mechanics and introduce new ones.  It's difficult to keep a game based on liscensed material alive once you exhaust the lore.

What I'd love to see is for FFG to continue to release their well-done quests, and put out a "Core-Saga" set for each LotR volume, and have expansion packs from there.  I think they could easily get by with nine expansion quests per book, after the Saga's original three.  For example from Fellowship (off the top of my head): 1-Escape the Shire/The Old Forest/To the House of Tom Bombadill (Core), Expansions: 1-The Prancing Pony/Bree, 2-Weathertop, 3-Flight to the Ford, 4-The Ring Goes South, 5-Journey in the Dark, 6-The Bridge of Khazad-Dum (yes, I know FFG already did Moria stuff but there is more that can be done with the property, particularly with the fellowship/Ring), 7-Journey to Lothlorien, 8-Travel downriver (maybe center it around the Argonath), 9-Breaking of the Fellowship.  That's really compacting things!  I don't know what they'd do if they go the supposed Hobbit route and only have 2 Saga expansions per volume.  If they alternate releases with their created encounters, this method would be enough material for 6 years, assuming a once-per month schedule.



#13 Gizlivadi

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 07:31 AM

jc1138 said:

I'm liking this game so far, don't get me wrong.  Got a Core, Rhosgobel, and Emyn Muil and have played them quite a bit; beaten all scenario's solo at least once (barring Dol Guldur, but I'm trying) while I wait for the mail (I've ordered most of what there is, including another Core).

I'm just hoping FFG plans very carefully because there are many ways to mis-step with the property and game, such as:

1-Release all the cool stuff (Gandalf the White, Anduril, Theoden, Eomer, Saruman, etc) in their made up quests, leaving little for the Sagas.  This could result in it feeling like Middle-earth: the Alternate Universe. 

2-Releasing all the cool stuff from the lore in the Saga packs and making them inaccessable for regular play, sort of how the Treasure cards were done for the first Hobbit expansion. 

3-Either way, releasing the high-profile cards too fast.  This was a problem with ME:TW CCG.  They put all the important elements from the lore into their first expansion, and the only way to keep players into the game was to shuffle around game mechanics and introduce new ones.  It's difficult to keep a game based on liscensed material alive once you exhaust the lore.

What I'd love to see is for FFG to continue to release their well-done quests, and put out a "Core-Saga" set for each LotR volume, and have expansion packs from there.  I think they could easily get by with nine expansion quests per book, after the Saga's original three.  For example from Fellowship (off the top of my head): 1-Escape the Shire/The Old Forest/To the House of Tom Bombadill (Core), Expansions: 1-The Prancing Pony/Bree, 2-Weathertop, 3-Flight to the Ford, 4-The Ring Goes South, 5-Journey in the Dark, 6-The Bridge of Khazad-Dum (yes, I know FFG already did Moria stuff but there is more that can be done with the property, particularly with the fellowship/Ring), 7-Journey to Lothlorien, 8-Travel downriver (maybe center it around the Argonath), 9-Breaking of the Fellowship.  That's really compacting things!  I don't know what they'd do if they go the supposed Hobbit route and only have 2 Saga expansions per volume.  If they alternate releases with their created encounters, this method would be enough material for 6 years, assuming a once-per month schedule.

 

I agree with you completely. I think that FFG is completely aware of the problems you addressed in #3. It's clear they're saving most of the cool stuff for later to keep the game going for a longer time. I am particularly worried about what you said in #1, and I agree with #2. I hated how they dealt with the treasure cards, and even the Biblo hero.


"A straight road lay westward, now it is bent."


#14 just Logan

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 05:13 PM

I think this is a question of how to make the most people the most happy. Even with the "Not the LotR story" many many people have complained about continuity issues. To me, a following the books approach limits them in what they can do too much. A "we don't touch the core content" pure ME setting without the books would make the game unattractive to everyone. It's a thin line to walk and I think the way it's being walked (keeping very based on the books but not following them)  is the best way, We know we will see every one from the books, but we also know we will not be limited to just playing the LotR board game (a great game, if you want to doggishly play out one story over and over but keep the difficulty and co-op; play that). I want a game that takes me to ME and lets me visit all my friends waiting there and lets me make new stories with them. I have that game. 






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