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Tournament courtesies


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#1 Torresse

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 01:07 AM

So in my first game my opponent had a target lock on me, he was a new player so I asked him if he wanted to use it after he rolled a hit and a blank. I did it to remind him he had target locked me.

My second game my manuver template went next to an astroid, and my opponent told me I had to roll asif I went through the astroid because the base of the ship would pass over it in midflight. I was sure I was right but there was only 10 minutes left in the timer so I tried to get him to pause the game while we asked another judge (me being one of them) he told me no, but the judge came over and answered that it wasnt so, but my other friend said he thought he read it in the rules (the friend is kinda irratating to play xwings with) I thought it was unclear who judges were and that the guy I was playing against would think I was trying to cheese my way through, so I just went ahead and rolled for 2 ships (a focus and a blank) I ended up destroying the guy in the last round with some amazing dice rolls against some rather crappy (I was already up by almost 33 points when we needed a call)

My third game was horrible. Ive never felt so bad (my opponent ran 2 tie advances (darth vader and temptest both with missles) so I knew if I got in 3 range in the begining he would destroy ships with missles. so I moved forward just out of his range on turn one, on turn 2 I went straight 5 and he ended up crashing both temptest and darth vader. I shot with 3 ties and killed darth Vader, my other 3 ties shot and killed temptest. While backstabber shot and hit a tie of his. on the first round of combat I killed his only named pilot and a total points of more then half of his force. after the round I ended up showing him how to avoid crashing into a collum.

Since that game didnt last long, I went to a table and watched a game where my friend was playing another guy who had said focus, but forgot to put the token on the charector. It came down to a die roll, and the friend told him he couldnt use the focus since he didnt have the token. I thought the friend was very unsportsmanlike, and noticed he tried to use a proton torpedoe he had already fired again (luckily I was there to see it fire the first time because it came down to him swearing he didnt use it) 

My fourth game my opponent forgot to use Howlrunner for a dice roll, so I reminded him of it once, he rerolled, I shot with my howlrunner, then he shot back forgetting again about Howlrunner, this time I didnt remind him, I thought once was the only reminder he needed, He was a good sport, though Howlrunner died soon after that so he only missed her ability twice in the game.

My final game I played the Kessal and waited about an hour before we were both unpacked and ready to play (at like 3 am) *starts singing* so we went at it like we were going to war. we both wanted the oppisite thing, and we were friends so it was a just a really fun match. Though neither of us wanted to play anymore and the third and fourth place were wanting to get their prize and get home. I had slave one with 3 sheilds, and 2 tie intercepters full hp. He only had the falcon with only one sheild. So I asked him if he wanted to stick it out or call it there, We shook hands gathered our winnings and left.

In most my games I would hold my ruler and say, this is range 2, do you aggree? I found by asking the opponent if he aggreed made him feel like it was more friendly of game (which all of my games were friendly)

So the reason for this post is what courtesies did you see/didnt see. Do you point out an ability, or do you just go with it? do you constantly remind your opponent to take an action? At what point do you stop and say enough lets despute this ruling and let the judge look it up in the FAQ/rulebook


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#2 pitsch

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 01:14 AM

With this, i will if I'm playing a new guy. If he is experienced, then I pause a few seconds or wait for him to say he is done. Even then if he asks me most of the time, as long as we aren't done rolling, I'll say yes, but u better believe if he forgets a focus or an Evade, I'm attacking him, unless Wedge is there, then iI focus all fire on him.


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#3 DeadInkPen

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 01:21 AM

Overall it was a really curteous and friendly tournament. Had some inexperienced players who needed a lot of reminding. There was one time where we had to look up the rules because both of us could not recall something due to lack of sleep. 

There was some debate on the moving into and through obsticales from the rule book on page 20.

The TO basically said that only applies if you land on it and nothing happens if you pass through it. I always have played it that if you pass through one it was the damage check roll and no action. I could have been wrong on that one, but then again I should ask on the rules questions on that one.



#4 sverigesson

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 01:38 AM

My opponent in the final relinquished his spot to let someone else play with the new ships, so long as he still got second pick. He was so cool about it, that I let him choose first. He grabbed the Falcon, I took the Slave I. We agreed to be "co-winners" of the tournament (I was cool with that, because he dominated all his opponents before that, I think he would have beat me). Another one of my opponents kept using the wrong maneuver, and was like "Obviously I didn't mean to fly off the board like that, right?" So I let it slide… of course a couple times when I forgot to use actions on my ships, he didn't offer to let me correct it, but oh well. All in all, everyone was pretty cool about everything, and there were no real rules issues that me and my opponents couldn't self police.



#5 Shooter McGavin

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 03:06 AM

At the Games Keep in West Chester, we had an awesome group of players that all helped each other out.  Most players had little to no experience and instead of taking advantage of that, we used it as an opportunity to help each other learn and remember things as we played.  Greatest bunch of lads I ever had the privilege of gaming with.   Also I want to send out a huge thanks to Karl and everyone else at the Games Keep for running such an awesome event.  They had all X Wing stuff on sale for us and don't charge a dime to play the event. Total class acts and an amazing game shop.  I will continue to drive 2 hours to play at this shop.  Thanks!!



#6 dvang

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 03:50 AM

For the record… for obstacles if the final position OR the maneuver template touches the obstacle (like the asteroid) you suffer the effects (loss of action, roll an attack die).  Your opponent was correct.

For moving over/through enemy ships, or off the table edge, only the final position of the moving matters.

It is in the rules, pg 20.

Moving into and Through Obs tacles


When a ship executes a maneuver in which either
the maneuver template or the ship’s base physically
overlaps an obstacle token, follow these steps:


1. Execute the maneuver as normal, but skip the
“Perform Action” step.


2. The player rolls one attack die. The ship then
suffers any damage or critical damage rolled
(see “Suffering Damage” on page 16).


Important: When overlapping an obstacle token,
the ship stays where it lands (on top of the token).
A ship that is overlapping an obstacle token during
the Combat phase cannot attack any ship but
may be targeted by other ships as normal.



#7 DeadInkPen

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 04:13 AM

Okay so then why does the FAQ say when you move through multiple obsticles (ie: asteroids) there is only one damage roll and not multiple. Also the first step says to skip the action phase of the ships turn. The TO said that neither step one or two applied to moving through them. I always assumed that it was those two steps happened, and the loss of the attack was in addition if your move actually ended up with the ship on top of the obsticle. 

So that raises the question if he is right on steps one and two not applying to moving through the asteroid, then what title the section moving into and through obsticles? A few people purposefully flew threw them. So if there is no penalty for doing that, its almost worthless to even have asteroids in play.



#8 afilter

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 04:42 AM

DeadInkPen said:

Okay so then why does the FAQ say when you move through multiple obsticles (ie: asteroids) there is only one damage roll and not multiple. Also the first step says to skip the action phase of the ships turn. The TO said that neither step one or two applied to moving through them. I always assumed that it was those two steps happened, and the loss of the attack was in addition if your move actually ended up with the ship on top of the obsticle. 

So that raises the question if he is right on steps one and two not applying to moving through the asteroid, then what title the section moving into and through obsticles? A few people purposefully flew threw them. So if there is no penalty for doing that, its almost worthless to even have asteroids in play.

 

In the case I would say the TO was clearly wrong.  qouted from the rules passing through an obstacle causes the player to role one die (no matter how many obstacles they went through that move) and lose the action.  If they land on the obstacle they role a die lose the action and cannot attack that turn.  Further more depending where they land on the obstacle they may have to role again next turn to get off the asteroid.  That is the whole purpose of having obstacles to make ships manuever or take the chance of suffering damage.



#9 RedSquadronK

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 04:50 AM

I agree that your TO was wrong, DeadInkPen.

In my experience everyone was really great at the tournament. The hardest rules question for me was remembering to remind each opponent that they got one less die when Wedge attacked them. There were a few times when their full defensive roll stood because I assumed they would remember my pilot abilities…

The toughest etiquette thing overall was people dealing with extremely bad or good strings of luck. My last opponent stormed out of the store in a rage because I just kept getting all my hits (aided by target locks, of course) and a few people dropped after 2 rounds because they didn't win.



#10 dvang

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 06:54 AM

DeadInkPen said:

 

Okay so then why does the FAQ say when you move through multiple obsticles (ie: asteroids) there is only one damage roll and not multiple. Also the first step says to skip the action phase of the ships turn. The TO said that neither step one or two applied to moving through them. I always assumed that it was those two steps happened, and the loss of the attack was in addition if your move actually ended up with the ship on top of the obsticle. 

So that raises the question if he is right on steps one and two not applying to moving through the asteroid, then what title the section moving into and through obsticles? A few people purposefully flew threw them. So if there is no penalty for doing that, its almost worthless to even have asteroids in play.

 

 

The FAQ simply clarified that you only make one roll when moving through multiple obstacles. Essentially, instead of the rulebook rule stating:

"When a ship executes a maneuver in which either
the maneuver template or the ship’s base physically
overlaps an obstacle token, follow these steps:"

Instead, it should read:

"When a ship executes a maneuver in which either
the maneuver template or the ship’s base physically
overlaps one or more obstacle tokens, follow these steps:"

The TO was mistaken. It happens.  It is clear in the rulebook that if the maneuver template or ships base touches an asteroid, the owning ship loses its action and needs to roll to see if it takes a hit, although it only rolls once no matter how many obstacles it might touch during the maneuver (clarified with FAQ). 

So yes, there is a penalty for moving through asteroids. The penalty is not getting an action and rolling to see if they take a hit (3/8 chance).  The ship may still shoot, unless it ends the maneuver touching an asteroid.

Still, sometimes there is need to deliberately move through an asteroid. Just like sometimes you need to execute a Red maneuver, which also loses your action. If it gets your ship out of a dangerous situation, or into a fortuitous situation, deliberately moving through an asteroid might be worth the risk.



#11 Carist

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 07:11 AM

dvang said:

 

So yes, there is a penalty for moving through asteroids. The penalty is not getting an action and rolling to see if they take a hit (3/8 chance).  

 

Critical damage does count when rolling for moving through obstacles.  



#12 Shooter McGavin

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 07:32 AM

Actually critical damage does count as noted on page 20 of rule book.  Moving into and through obstacles. 

"The player rolls one attack die.  The ship then suffers any damage or critical damage rolled."

 



#13 Gravis

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 07:46 AM

 

dvang said:

 

For the record… for obstacles if the final position OR the maneuver template touches the obstacle (like the asteroid) you suffer the effects (loss of action, roll an attack die).  Your opponent was correct.

 

 

 

Right, this is exactly the way I understand the rule.  However the OP doesn't say that his maneuver template touched the obstacle or that the base overlaps on its final position.  He says his opponent said he was hit because the base passed over it in midflight, which does not create an obstacle collision effect.

Of course I, like many others, am still getting the rules down too.  I definitely missed the part where you could not make attacks if you were overlapping an obstacle.  In my one game where it was an issue I did the maneuver correctly, stopping where I was supposed to stop, took the roll, no actions, however I still made my attack.

One of the rules I came across in the final was that if you flip over a red maneuver while you already have a stress token, the opponent then gets to choose any non-red maneuver off your dial for you to execute.  Everyone at nearby tables, and a judge, seemed to think you could do the red maneuvers and just build up stress.  If it wasn't the final, I probably would have let him pick a different maneuver.  Likewise, he held me to the rules and made me roll for a console fire after I forgot it was there.

I definitely agree with pointing things out to other players, especially if they are new.  And most, if not everyone, is relatively new to this game and still making mistakes.  However, in future tourneys after this game has been out longer, I know I will be less forgiving (unless again it's a new player and I'm going to win anyway), and I expect my opponents to hold me to the fire too.  Friendly matches though, I will always allow my opponents to correct an action due to a misunderstanding of the rules, or forgetting to take an action (though a lot of the players I play with won't take the mulligans).



#14 Gravis

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 07:48 AM

Woops, sorry for the double quote.  I wish this forum had an edit :P.

 

Edit - I'm dumb, I saw the button right after I posted this.



#15 dvang

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 08:25 AM

DeadInkPen said:

Overall it was a really curteous and friendly tournament. Had some inexperienced players who needed a lot of reminding. There was one time where we had to look up the rules because both of us could not recall something due to lack of sleep. 

There was some debate on the moving into and through obsticales from the rule book on page 20.

The TO basically said that only applies if you land on it and nothing happens if you pass through it. I always have played it that if you pass through one it was the damage check roll and no action. I could have been wrong on that one, but then again I should ask on the rules questions on that one.

You are correct and the TO was wrong. Pg 20 pretty clearly states that if the ship base OR the maneuver template touches the obstacle, the ship loses its action and must roll to see it if suffers a hit.

The "only applies if you land on it" is only when dealing with other ships or moving off the table edge.



#16 DeadInkPen

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 08:27 AM

 

One rule I was unaware of until the FAQ got released is that unless the ships overlap they are not touching even if the bases do touch. So it means that those ships can fire at each other. This has come in handy a few times.



#17 R5Don4

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 09:41 AM

If they are touching, the ship that moved second overlapped and loses their action.  They cannot attack each other.   The instances of so close they are almost touching are extremely rare. 


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#18 DeadInkPen

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 10:36 AM

Bases can touch with out overlaping. Sorry to break it you. FFG even admits that in the FAQ 

Q: Can two ships be considered touching if neither ship overlaped the other ship this round?

A: No

I have seen a few times where people have tightly packed their ships in formation where their bases are all touching and keep moving like that. So even though they are touching by the way he moves them none overlaped any of the other and there for are not considered overlaped. Also have seen a couple of times where two opponents ships have ended up having their bases touch even though they did not overlap. That one I have only seen twice. The most common I have seen is corners touching at the end of manuevers. In all those circumstances they don't lose actions because they never once overlaped the other ship, even though the bases were infact touching due to placement.



#19 Torresse

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 11:16 AM

it happens often. say you go right into someones butt,next round you both go 2 straight. you will end up touching again, however you only crashed the first time, because there is just enough room for you to make it behind him again without overlapping.


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#20 DoubleNot7

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 11:27 AM

Page 20 is pretty clear amd Dvang is right; You run a risk when the maneuver template crosses an obstacle.


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