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[rule question] force struggle


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#1 Rogue 3

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 05:54 PM

I have Ancient Monument in play can I win a force struggle with no characters on the table?

 

 

I can not find anything in the rules to say i can not.



#2 MarthWMaster

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 05:57 PM

Why not? At least this way, you force the DS player to commit something in order to wrest the balance away from you.



#3 Rogue 3

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 10:08 PM

can we get some kind of conformation on this?



#4 Andur Saibot

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 10:50 PM

I was going to agree with MarthWMaster with no thought, but given one an re-reading the rules, they specify that for a Force struggle you need to count the force icons on characters, so now I doubt if the addition of the Ancient Monument and Jedi Training stands by itself or adds to your total only granted a character's force icons as a basis.

So… Help anyone?



#5 Rozgutt

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 11:02 PM

I'm no expert, but from my point of view it would look like this:

 

  1. Count force icons on characters (in this case: 0-0) AND modify the result using the modifiers (in this case: the monument adds 1 icon) and add them up. That gives us 1-0
  2. Flip the token to the light side

If there were some characters, the modifiers would be added for sure, so why shouldn't it happen when there are 0 characters on the table?



#6 Hurdoc

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 01:29 AM

I agree with Rozgutt's reasoning. I do think the rulebook should be better worded in this regard. Since LCG/CCGs can become very complex with card interactions, I don't envy whoever writes the rulebook, though, it must be like writing a legal document. Every single word and nuance counts.



#7 allenkwest

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 01:51 AM

Because in the rule book it states that units can only be committed to the force and are counted towards the force struggle, I would say no. Ancient Monument is an enhancement card looks to help your side in the struggle by adding 1 Force icon.

 



#8 dbmeboy

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 02:08 AM

I can chime in based on how they worked at GenCon. You can indeed add to a value of zero force icons committed by zero units. This game is not like SWCCG where a value that hadn't been created was an unmodifiable zero.

#9 Andur Saibot

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 02:13 AM

dbmeboy said:

I can chime in based on how they worked at GenCon. You can indeed add to a value of zero force icons committed by zero units. This game is not like SWCCG where a value that hadn't been created was an unmodifiable zero.

 

Well, this seems like almost-pro opinion to me given the facts. I'll run with this, which is basically what I thought at the beginning, prior to give in into doubt (and grammar).

Thanks dbmeboy!



#10 dbmeboy

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 02:18 AM

Similarly (though this didn't come up in any of my games at GenCon), you should be able to win an edge battle entirely with the edge keyword, even if you didn't play any cards into it. This could potentially be a nice combo with Twist of Fate.




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