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Replacing WFRP3 core mechanic with 4dF (fudge)


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#1 heptat

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 12:49 AM

So I was thinking of getting back into WFRP3 (only ran a few sessions last year with some friends/newbies). Then I started reading all the posts about the rules being BROKEN (especially from Yepesnopes). And the sad thing is, I agree.

I think I was in denial for a long time. I really wanted this game to be good, and to be successful. I actually quite like the dice, and some of the sub-systems around fear/terror, insanity, corruption, disease etc. But too many cards, too many chits and a core mechanic that just seems unbalanced (seems like they didn't even check the probabilities of rolls when they designed it).

Anyway, I'm not here to bash WFRP3 anymore than is necessary, I'm just here to say that I've written my own house rules for WFRP3 which rip out the core mechanic and replace it with the Fudge 4dF (and the fudge ladder). This means (the way I look at it) a broken over powered system is replaced with a very balanced one. I still use expertise, challenge, fortune and misfortune dice to keep things interesting. I've had to rewrite quite a few rules - but I've tried to minimise this as much as possible, so there's actually quite a bit there that's still using the rules as written, for example I can still use the existing monster stats and skills, and character attributes are at exactly the same levels as the RaW.

The big change is actions - I've basically got rid of them. Combat is now much simplier with choices for actions limited to those you'll find in GURPS. I still have to rewrite spells as necessary (ugh, not looking forward to that - just see what my players want to play first).

I'll play-test the bejesus out of this sometime in January, then get my campaign going again. I'm a pretty loosey goosey GM (as my players know), so having a perfectly balanced and fine-tuned system is not necessary for us. Really looking forward to playing this.

I wonder if anyone else has combined fudge dice with WFRP3 dice?? 

 



#2 Daedalum

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 09:00 PM

Ooh sounds cool, please do consider sharing your rules once you are happy with them. I'd be interested in how such a  fudge/v3 mix would suit extended campaigns too. 



#3 heptat

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 03:03 AM

Daedalum said:

Ooh sounds cool, please do consider sharing your rules once you are happy with them. I'd be interested in how such a  fudge/v3 mix would suit extended campaigns too. 

I'm still working on them…unfortunately it involves a lot of rewriting of actions (spells and creature/monster attacks mostly), but I'm getting there (too much time on my hands at the moment).

I like the replacement core mechanic I've devised. It works in two dimensions - vertically you have the attributes that use the Fudge ladder and range from 1 (poor) to 6 (superb) with 3 being the average for humans (you can have 7 for legendary too if you want). Each skill obviously defaults to a attribute score,  and when you make a skill test you roll 4dF. But skills are also learned separately and run horizontally - skills that are worse than average add challenge/misfortune dice. Skills that are better than average add expertise and fortune dice (there are no longer any characteristic, reckless or conservative dice). It means you still get some of the fancy WFRP dice (including, importantly, the comet and chaos star results), which are definitely fun, but never too many of them.

Ugh, if I had any graphics skill at all I should just draw that o_O

I'm hoping these rules will work well with extended play because characters don't succeed anywhere near as easily in early levels, and they have a lot of room for improving attributes and skills - and the XP costs to do that will take a long time to accumulate.

Will keep you posted. :)



#4 Doc, the Weasel

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 06:54 AM

Why not just run full FATE in the Warhammer setting? Seems like it would be a better fit than trying to kludge two totally different systems together.


Listen to my actual play podcasts at BeggingForXP.com.

 

Take a look at my Talent Trees (Edge of the Empire and Age of Rebellion), YT-2400 deck plans for the Lazy Bantha, as well as my other handouts.


#5 heptat

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 02:17 PM

Doc, the Weasel said:

Why not just run full FATE in the Warhammer setting? Seems like it would be a better fit than trying to kludge two totally different systems together.

Good question.

First I'm not particularly enamoured with Fate. I've tried using Strands of Fate for WFRP and I just didn't like the result. I definitely like the Fudge core mechanic however.

And I think WFRP3 has done a lot of good things - rules for corruption and disease for example. It has retained a reasonably good Warhammer flavour within its rules (not as good as WFRP1 of course…).

And yes, I'm sure my rules are kludgy in places, but as I'm only producing something for my own benefit, I don't mind…we'll see how my players take to it in Janurary :)



#6 Doc, the Weasel

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 11:26 AM

You may consider the Fate Core Kickstarter. If you contribute just a buck, you get access to all the beta stuff. It's different than Strands of Fate, and the price is definitely right.


Listen to my actual play podcasts at BeggingForXP.com.

 

Take a look at my Talent Trees (Edge of the Empire and Age of Rebellion), YT-2400 deck plans for the Lazy Bantha, as well as my other handouts.


#7 heptat

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 04:54 AM

Already got it, thanks ;)



#8 geekoo

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 01:37 AM

Interesting keep us updated!
Will a download will be available soon?



#9 geekoo

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 11:06 PM

Doc, the Weasel said:

 

You may consider the Fate Core Kickstarter. If you contribute just a buck, you get access to all the beta stuff. It's different than Strands of Fate, and the price is definitely right.

 


 

 

What are the essential differences between the 2 systems?

I am at the moment looking in adapting WFRP3 with either the fudge or FATE system. I am really new to those 2 sytems. I am reading at the moment the FATE v2 I think :)
i will go for a more convemtionnal RPG game for several reasons (won't go into details):
1- I don't want to use all the cards/tokens etc… (will use the player's guide)
2- I am not willing to pay 200-300 euros for a RPG game. + can't find any dices anymore.
3- System is interesting but I think broken (we talked about that 2 years ago with several members of the forum:)). Quite a few topics, pages and maths…
4- I want to avoid throwing a handfull of dices. For me it is a little difficult to read results and interpret them. 


My basic idea is of course to use the scaling that you have in FATE or FUDGE for skills.
talents I think will add bonuses I think to roll or results. Need to work on this.
I will get rid of actions in the way they are implemented. I am more looking expertise and probably also talents.
Using the 4 dices + sometimes the opportunity to roll either a misfortune dice or a fortune dice ( that I will create myself / 6 face dice I think or 8)
Also for expertise in a skill I will change a FATE dice with one I will also create.

normal FATE dice are  O O - - + +
An expertise dice would look something like this O O O - + + (taking of a minus result)

 



Now I have several questions:

- Do you have an adress where I could check the dices statistics for FATE, WFRP3, and other dices?
I will need to check the math.

- regarding expertise dices I had 2 options/ideas:
1. the idea is to have the possibility to have from 1 to 3 levels of expertise in a skill and each time you have an expertise dice you change one of your normal FATE dice with an expertise one.

2. still keep the three level of expertise, but only change one of the dices with specially created expertise dices regarding the level.
So level 1 expertise could look like this:
O O O - + +
Level 2 expertise 
O O O + +
Level 3 expertise
O O + + +
This means I would have 3 different types of expertise dice (would use 3 colors).

This option could be nice because I could integrate a stance dice in the 4 dices. I would only use one level of stance either C or W.
meaning I could have a throw looking like this:

Normal FATE dice
Normal FATE dice
eventually an expertise dice (level1,2 or 3)
Stance dice ( C, W or neutral)

+ misfortune or fortune dice.

I would use as the difficulty the scaling found in FATE keeping all the static, challenges rolls.


- What are the main differences between FATE and FUDGE?
 



 



#10 geekoo

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 11:18 PM

heptat said:

Daedalum said:

 

Each skill obviously defaults to a attribute score,  and when you make a skill test you roll 4dF. But skills are also learned separately and run horizontally 


 

Can you explain this and give an example?
I was not sure on my side how to implement the attributes and how to link them to skills yet.
i suppsoe attributes can be used also for bonus to damage, health, initiative, certain raw rolls etc….
I like the option of buying skills separately. 
 

 



#11 chriscdoa

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 04:20 AM

Agk! why?

my favourite thing about WFRP 3 is the dice. Whereas my least favourite aspect of FATE is the dice. And the ladder. And paying to use aspects. Ok, i just don't like FATE. I used to, but the more i looked at it, the less i liked it.

To me WFRP takes thinks like stunts which are faffy and sticks them on a card so the players have them. The downside being they are on cards, so picking new actions/talents is a pain.

i'd rather find a way of using WFRP dice with FATE than the other way around!

Just IMHO






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