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#1 Toqtamish

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 08:52 AM

 

http://www.fantasyfl...s.asp?eidn=3797



#2 cpjolicoeur

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 09:22 AM

Some nice enhancements but I'm curious of the wording on "Echo Base Shield Generator".

Limit Once Per Turn seems kind of ambiguous on this card.  What is being limited once per turn?  Placing 1 damage for 1 shield?  Returning it to your hand once per turn?  Playing the actual enchancement card once per turn?



#3 cparadis

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 09:41 AM

Interesting question. I think it means you can place a shield token once per turn, but it is a little ambiguous. I'd say it does not mean you can only play the card once per turn, because that would be accomplished by the "Limited" keyword.  Seems like the card could have been clearer if it was one sentence and read "and then if there are three damage counters retun to it to your hand" assuming of course that was the design intent. It seems like there is one action and part of that action is returning the card to your hand. But, you can only do the action once per turn, regardless of where or not the card returns to your hand. 



#4 Saturnine

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 09:54 AM

cparadis said:

 It seems like there is one action and part of that action is returning the card to your hand. But, you can only do the action once per turn, regardless of where or not the card returns to your hand. 

I understand it the same way.



#5 gokubb

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 10:06 AM

Its not really ambiguous. The bolded Action: denotes a triggered effect. That entire effect is once per turn.



#6 dbmeboy

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 11:32 AM

gokubb said:

Its not really ambiguous. The bolded Action: denotes a triggered effect. That entire effect is once per turn.

The question then becomes: if you replay the card on the turn that it returns to your hand, can you use the ability again?

#7 Toqtamish

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 11:35 AM

dbmeboy said:

gokubb said:

Its not really ambiguous. The bolded Action: denotes a triggered effect. That entire effect is once per turn.

The question then becomes: if you replay the card on the turn that it returns to your hand, can you use the ability again?

Yes should be the answer. It's not the same card after it leaves play. It's a new instance  of the same card. 



#8 dbmeboy

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 11:40 AM

Toqtamish said:

dbmeboy said:

gokubb said:

 

Its not really ambiguous. The bolded Action: denotes a triggered effect. That entire effect is once per turn.

The question then becomes: if you replay the card on the turn that it returns to your hand, can you use the ability again?

 

Yes should be the answer. It's not the same card after it leaves play. It's a new instance  of the same card. 

That's how I would interpret it… but mostly because that's how it would work in other games I play (like Magic).  I'll have to go back through the SWLCG rules carefully to see if there's anything about how this game handles that…



#9 FiendishDevil

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 12:02 PM

If returned, then redeployed, can use ability again. Rules should work same as WH:I

 

That said, I'm drooling at this preview. I want the core set in my hands nowwwww.



#10 Aahzmandius_Karrde

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 01:40 PM

I'm loving this announcement for a few reasons.

 

1) We're already seeing some new features that aren't provided in the base set.

2) Just how well this one OSet synergizes with itself.

3) They're already playing "games" with the numbers of OSets in a Force Pack.  Fist pack give us 2 OSets x1 and 4 OSes x2, this just gives us 5 OSets x2.  I had been assuming that with the distribution of the first pack if we saw that consistantly we'd end up with twice as many OSets by the end of Hoth as we started with.  At this we should still be close, but the actuall number of OSets is not guarenteed.  For all we know the next pack could have 9 unique OSets in it.

 


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#11 Darth Corvus

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 08:59 PM

It's definitely the whole action once per turn. You can tell because the second sentence begins with "then".

Can't wait for these Hoth sets. Can't wait for the Core Set for that matter. Man, I want to play this game now!



#12 Andur Saibot

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 10:09 PM

Aahzmandius_Karrde said:

I'm loving this announcement for a few reasons.

 

1) We're already seeing some new features that aren't provided in the base set.

 

This actually worries me a bit in a way. I'll explain.

Of course we haven't seen yet all the cards, but only with what we have seen, I can tell the Hoth objective bonus mechanics seems a bit too powerful too me (Echo Trooper can kill Vader with a single shot if you control 3 Hoth objectives and the Echo Base, which should be easy in a Hoth themed deck) to be fought against with something that it is not Hoth based. My point is: is not too soon in the game to develop such mechanics when the alternatives to fight them (other than with Hoth cards) are only (or mainly) core-set based? Won't obligate Hoth just to play with Hoth to be competitive?

Just wondering.



#13 Budgernaut

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 12:01 AM

Andur Saibot said:

 

Aahzmandius_Karrde said:

 

I'm loving this announcement for a few reasons.

 

1) We're already seeing some new features that aren't provided in the base set.

 

 

 

This actually worries me a bit in a way. I'll explain.

Of course we haven't seen yet all the cards, but only with what we have seen, I can tell the Hoth objective bonus mechanics seems a bit too powerful too me (Echo Trooper can kill Vader with a single shot if you control 3 Hoth objectives and the Echo Base, which should be easy in a Hoth themed deck) to be fought against with something that it is not Hoth based. My point is: is not too soon in the game to develop such mechanics when the alternatives to fight them (other than with Hoth cards) are only (or mainly) core-set based? Won't obligate Hoth just to play with Hoth to be competitive?

Just wondering.

 

 

I think that is the intent of the designers at the moment. They want to capitalize on the theme of the Battle of Hoth, and the current mechanics almost guarantee that both players will be running Hoth decks, at least for now. I think things will balance out with future cycles.

The other thing to consider is that the Hoth sets are looking to be only Rebel Alliance and Imperial Navy. I think we'll see some strong cards this cycle for the other 4 factions that "feel" more like the core set and less like Hoth. We have to wait and see if those new sets have tools to counter a Hoth deck.

EDIT: Scratch that last bit. I just realized that the Desolation of Hoth event card is Sith. Now I'm really curious to see how all the affiliations play into the Hoth theme.


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#14 LMKComaBlack

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 01:40 AM

Budgernaut said:

Andur Saibot said:

 

Aahzmandius_Karrde said:

 

I'm loving this announcement for a few reasons.

 

1) We're already seeing some new features that aren't provided in the base set.

 

 

 

This actually worries me a bit in a way. I'll explain.

Of course we haven't seen yet all the cards, but only with what we have seen, I can tell the Hoth objective bonus mechanics seems a bit too powerful too me (Echo Trooper can kill Vader with a single shot if you control 3 Hoth objectives and the Echo Base, which should be easy in a Hoth themed deck) to be fought against with something that it is not Hoth based. My point is: is not too soon in the game to develop such mechanics when the alternatives to fight them (other than with Hoth cards) are only (or mainly) core-set based? Won't obligate Hoth just to play with Hoth to be competitive?

Just wondering.

 

 

I think that is the intent of the designers at the moment. They want to capitalize on the theme of the Battle of Hoth, and the current mechanics almost guarantee that both players will be running Hoth decks, at least for now. I think things will balance out with future cycles.

The other thing to consider is that the Hoth sets are looking to be only Rebel Alliance and Imperial Navy. I think we'll see some strong cards this cycle for the other 4 factions that "feel" more like the core set and less like Hoth. We have to wait and see if those new sets have tools to counter a Hoth deck.

EDIT: Scratch that last bit. I just realized that the Desolation of Hoth event card is Sith. Now I'm really curious to see how all the affiliations play into the Hoth theme.

It'll all depend on the local meta, but (as a Cthulhu player) the Day/Night mechanic was really neat when it first came out and each player would be tugging on it to get it in their favor.  Years later, you could make a Daytime deck with no opposition, but that didn't break the game, because in using the Day/Night mechanic, you were forced to ignore all sorts of other powerful mechanics, which meant you were ignoring the obvious answers to some other types of decks that had come along.

 

Each player only gets 10 (or 11) options.  For a viable Hoth deck, that's going to lock 6 of those choices, minimum.  8 more likely.  Think of all the crazy deck options you will have to ignore, simply because you can't realisticly splash Ewoks with only 2 slots in your deck open.  What does an Echo Trooper do against a DS tactics deck that only defends objectives and can win the game in 6 turns thanks to holding the force all game?

 

People are worried because the "Hoth Deck" is the first sign of true deck specialization.  It will be a big deal for 2013.  But as more sets come out, it will be one of a growing number of themed decks that are each powerful in their own way.  We should expect power creap for the next block or two… but then we will reach equilibrium, and all will be well.



#15 MarthWMaster

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 03:19 AM

Growing pains.   



#16 Cojhawk

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 07:50 AM

MarthWMaster said:

Growing pains.   

I could use some more of this type of pain.

 



#17 Keggy

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 08:29 AM

The problem I have with the idea of Hoth decks is that early on (1 or 2 force packs in) whoever draws the right objectives first is gonna roll the other guy.  Once fully developed, they will stay on top until another theme/mechanic archetype has been fully fleshed out enough to begin to compete.  I am not looking forward to nothing but Hoth decks for first year or more of the game.

Oh how I hope I am wrong.



#18 Budgernaut

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 09:00 AM

Keggy said:

The problem I have with the idea of Hoth decks is that early on (1 or 2 force packs in) whoever draws the right objectives first is gonna roll the other guy.  Once fully developed, they will stay on top until another theme/mechanic archetype has been fully fleshed out enough to begin to compete.  I am not looking forward to nothing but Hoth decks for first year or more of the game.

Oh how I hope I am wrong.

My hope would be that Edge of Darkness will introduce objective sets that make the core objectives -- especially Scum & Villainy and Smugglers & Spies -- more competitive and able to stand up to a Hoth deck. The way I see it, the core is just flavor, so the Hoth cycle is really our first introduction to deck-wide synergies. Until we get non-Hoth expansions Hoth is going to rule. But because Edge of Darkness will be released next year as well, I think it will serve to break up the monotony of the Hoth Cycle.


"There is a fine line between neutral and amoral. In fact, there may be no line there at all."

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#19 eklu947

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 10:20 AM

Keggy said:

The problem I have with the idea of Hoth decks is that early on (1 or 2 force packs in) whoever draws the right objectives first is gonna roll the other guy.  Once fully developed, they will stay on top until another theme/mechanic archetype has been fully fleshed out enough to begin to compete.  I am not looking forward to nothing but Hoth decks for first year or more of the game.

Oh how I hope I am wrong.

This is all a part of the process. Also, metas for card games tend to be very streamlined, especially at the beginning of a new format. At this point, I'm going to take the approach of "it is what it is," and enjoy this game through its infancy to see it when it is fully fleshed out.






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