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Defending Bilbo in "Dungeons Deep and Caverns Dim"


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#1 Thetimebinder

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 09:50 PM

"Cards in the riddle area (including Bilbo Baggins) are 

immune to player card effects and cannot leave the riddle 
area except through specific quest card effects. While 
Gollum is in the riddle area, he does not contribute his 
threat during the quest phase and cannot be engaged by 
the players. While Bilbo Baggins is in the riddle area, the 
first player still controls him; however, he cannot quest, 
attack, take damage from cards other than Gollum, have 
attachments played on him by the players, or defend 
(except against Gollum)"
 
 
Can the first player use a character other then Bilbo to defend against Gollum's attacks on Bilbo?  Can a character with Sentinal defend against Gollum's attacks on Bilbo?


#2 richsabre

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 11:37 PM

i would say no…..hes pretty much alone down there

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#3 Thetimebinder

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 11:17 AM

If the first player who controls Bilbo cannot defend for him, then Bilbo cannot defend for himself.  Golum is not engaged with Bilbo, nor is Golum engaged with the first player.  How can Bilbo declare himself as a defender against Golum?



#4 richsabre

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 11:52 AM

Thetimebinder said:

If the first player who controls Bilbo cannot defend for him, then Bilbo cannot defend for himself.  Golum is not engaged with Bilbo, nor is Golum engaged with the first player.  How can Bilbo declare himself as a defender against Golum?

bilbo can defend for himself by the first player, though no other actions can happen. its the way the quest is designed to make sure that 3 wrong riddles will end the game


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#5 Thetimebinder

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 01:38 PM

richsabre said:

 

bilbo can defend for himself by the first player, though no other actions can happen. its the way the quest is designed to make sure that 3 wrong riddles will end the game

 

 

Well, actions CAN happen.  It is a combat phase and players get actions during it, they just cannot target or affect cards in the Riddle area.  During a Gollum attack on Bilbo, a player could play Quick Strike and make an attack on a non-Gollum enemy.

 

Gollum reads: “Forced: After the first player answers a riddle and fails to find at least 1 match, Gollum attacks Bilbo Baggins. (Do not deal a shadow card for this attack.)”

 

To be clear:

 

Resolving Enemy Attacks

When resolving enemy attacks, the players follow these 4 steps, in order. Players may play event cards and take actions at the end of each step.

1. Choose an enemy. The first player chooses which attack (among the enemies to which he is engaged) to resolve first.

2. Declare defender. A character must exhaust to be declared as a defender. Only one character can

be declared as a defender against each attacking enemy. A player also has the option to let an attack go

undefended, and declare no defenders for that attack.

Unless a card effect specifies otherwise, players can only declare defenders against enemies with whom they are engaged.

 

According the the FAQ:

(1.33) Attacks by non-engaged enemies

When an enemy attacks a player, that player may declare 1 defender whether the enemy is engaged with him or not. Sentinel may also be used to defend against such attacks.

 

However, I can't find anything doesn't say what happens when an enemy attacks a non-player.

 

Town Baiting says, “When Revealed: Smaug makes an attack against Lake-town. The last player may declare a defender against this attack.” So, it tells you how to defend this attack.

 

Gollum has no such text, so it seems that by the rules, you cannot defend against Gollum's attack (not even with Bilbo) while Gollum is in the Riddle area.

 

However…

 

The Riddle Area text in the rule's sheet says”While Bilbo Baggins is in the riddle area, the first player still controls him; however, he cannot quest, attack, take damage from cards other than Gollum, have attachments played on him by the players, or defend (except against Gollum).

So it implies that at the least, Bilbo can defend against Gollum, but it doesn't say whether or not other characters can defend against Gollum.

 

 

 

 



#6 Alex6222

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 05:01 AM

I agree with Rich, although tecnically the first player "controls" Bilbo the riddle area is a totally diferent place. You cannot play attachemts or use events to help Bilbo so the first player only decides wether Bilbo would defend an attack by gollum or to trigger the ring's ability, once you enter stage 3 you are going to be able to defend with other characters that aren't Bilbo, and thematically it makes sense only Bilbo can defend Gollum attacks because he is pretty alone in there.

 

 



#7 richsabre

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 07:42 AM

yes, without sending a rules request this is the closest to an answer you are going to get.

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#8 Thetimebinder

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 11:28 AM

I can see not being able to defend for Bilbo except with Bilbo, if the Riddle Area was set up like the seperate staging areas in Foudations of Stone and thus nothing in one area can affect a differant area.  Thanks for all the input.






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