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My Kessel Run lists


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#1 hothie

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 11:29 AM

I have the opportunity to play in 3 Kessel Run tourneys, and after much debating, i think I've narrowed down what I am going to play. Although which list I play at which venue remains to be seen.

My Imperial build:

Darth Vader with Swarm Tactics, Mauler Mithel, Backstabber, APX3

The thought behind this one is to fly in 2 wings. The AP's will set up first, 2 in one wing, and 1 in the other. then i will see how my opponent reacts to this and sets up. Then I have the option of having my 2 wings look like this:

Vader, Mauler, AP and Backstabber, AP, AP

or this:

Vader, AP, AP and Mauler, Backstabber, AP

How I set them up will depend on what i think my opponent will be doing with his squad. Either way I provide a tough choice: does my opponent go after the juicy Vader target, hence getting stabbed in the back? or does he try to prevent getting stabbed in the back and leave vader alone? Either way, it should make for a fun game. :) I think wings of 3 TIEs can navigate asteroids much better than a giant swarm, especially with the opponent's ships in there as well, which is why I'm going for the 2 wings theory.



Wedge with R2F2 and Torps, Horton with Ion and torps, Dutch with Ion

I know, it's 3 ships, don't yell at me. Again I fly in 2 wings, Wedge and Dutch in one, and Horton in the other. While my opponent is busy taking shots at Wedge, Horton flanks with torps and Ion. Wedge uses his action for R2F2, while Dutch gives him a free target lock. This one is more of a fun squad, and I know it will also be a challenge to win with, but I like to be challenged.



Wedge with Swarm tactics and R2F2, Rookie pilotX2, Gold Pilot with Ion

This one is a variant of what Nick played against me in the Worlds Finals. the ships are the same, but the upgrades are a little different. Honestly, I think this is the best 4 ship Rebel combo, and it leaves room for customizable upgrades. I can play this as 2 wings or as one squadron, either way is fine. The trouble is my opponent will be focusing on Wedge, so he needs to be worth his points before he gets taken out.  I've played against this squad, i know how to beat it, as I'm sure all of you do too. But there is a reason Nick got to the Finals with it, as it is good against Rebel builds.

Well, there they are. No, I'm not playing the same squad I won with at Worlds. I'm trying different things to see how i do with them. I hope to get some practice in this weekend. See you in Kessel!



#2 DeadInkPen

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 05:23 PM

I do run what you put for the imperial list, but I have played around with the upgrade card a little. From the matches I have had, I have noticed that if you put 2 AP on one side and the last one on the opposite, the rebel players usually line themselves up with the 2 APs or inbetween the two. This has been somewhat true with facing other imerials around my area as well. 

I am really curious on how your for fun rebel squad will work, so if you do play that hope you will share on that one. 



#3 hothie

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 12:07 AM

I kinda figured my opponent would focus on the 2 AP's, in which case Vader goes with them and Mauler and Backstabber go with the other one for a deadly flanking wing. If my opponent sets up between them, then I get both wings to converge on him, which will be deadly as well. Glad you've played it before. I'll post a Kessel Run report in the Battle Reports section afterwards for those who are interested in seeing it.



#4 Picasso

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 02:25 AM

I find it funny that during our game at worlds I said to you the list you were playing was the list I was debating taking.  Now I read this and I'm looking at my Kessel Run list and it is closs to yours.  Great minds?

 

Ryan



#5 hothie

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 04:19 AM

Heh, yeah. :)

Part of that may be due to a limited number of possibilities as well, at least until February. Good luck! Hope you fare better than I do! :)

 

And Deadinkpen, thanks for the insight! :)



#6 DeadInkPen

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 11:32 PM

Hothie, 

Another thing I forgott to meantion that I like to do with that list is to angle the ships a bit towards the middle. This heavily depends on asteroid placement. I pretty much angle the wing with the 1 AP. Don't know what you think about doing that, it can save you a little bit of time sometimes. There is a great chance that it will put backstabber into range for the +1 - 2 attack in the second or third rounds.

No problem on the insight. I normally don't get a lot of people here who take any type of mini game seriously. Right now seems everyone is going for the 8 TIE swarm for the KRT here. I am really tempted to play around and find a rebel list to go at them with. 

Here is what I am looking at for a 3 ship rebel build:

Wedge + R2 generic, Protons, Expert Handling

Biggs + R2F2

Either Dutch or Horton + R2 generic, Protons, Ion

My four list is pretty much like yours. I was going to do R2D2, but you are probably right on using R2F2 instead. Hope you can toss some imput on the Three ship list.



#7 peshk

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 12:33 AM

Wedge, Biggs, Dutch with your suggested addons are what I wanted to run. But than I decided I am to inexperienced to pull of maneuvering with range 1 abilities. I think if one is able enough to fly with it it is a great combo. I'll have to practice more and will go to my KRT with

Wedge, Dutch and Luke or Wedge, Dutch and Garvin.



#8 hothie

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 01:16 AM

DeadInkPen said:

 

Here is what I am looking at for a 3 ship rebel build:

Wedge + R2 generic, Protons, Expert Handling

Biggs + R2F2

Either Dutch or Horton + R2 generic, Protons, Ion

 

 

With those 2 Xwings, go with Dutch. You'll have to keep them close anyway, might as well get a free target lock for doing so. And if you do go with Dutch, you can (don't have to, but can) put Proton torps on Biggs, and here's why:

Biggs and Dutch will be within Range 1, so you'll get Dutch's target lock and Biggs ability. Biggs will use his action for R2F2. You want to keep Biggs at Range 3 of your opponent so you'll get 4 defense dice, which is also one of the nominal ranges for torps. Biggs moves first, then Dutch moves up next to him to give him the free target lock. If you can, put Dutch a little bit ahead of Biggs, so that Dutch is in range 2 of your opponent and can use his Ion cannon. Plus, you put Biggs in there for his defensive ability, it's kinda fun to be able to do some damage with him as well. :) That will leave Dutch free to Ion whoever.

There are 2 downsides to running them like this: the first is Biggs is going to die,and so the torps points will count against you when he does. The second is if Biggs is at Range 3 to the front ships, that means he may be out of range for other ships farther back, which means if Dutch is Range 2 to the front ships, he may be Range 3 to the back ships, so he'll be the target. Some will say this isn't a downside, as your opponent will now be able to spread damage out, thus keeping your squad alive longer. So it's kinda up to you how you want to play it. I just think it's fun to be able to do some damage with Biggs before he goes out in a ball of flames. :)



#9 hothie

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 02:28 AM

I think my 4 Rebel ship build will do quite well against an 8 TIE swarm. Wedge will be the target, which is why I gave him R2F2. R2D2 heals damage that you have taken, IF you execute a green maneuver, and IF you survive long enough to use him. R2F2 helps to prevent that damage in the first place, and it works against ALL attacks, for 1 point less. The bad part about R2F2 is that it takes your action to do so, so you're giving up Focus or Target Lock to use him. But if you're facing an 8 TIE swarm, which would you rather have?



#10 hothie

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 01:39 PM

So, I tried out my Imperial squad tonight against a 4 ship Rebel build. After 75 miinutes, neither of us had killed anything, but we played the match out, and it was over 2 hours. I ended up winning, but it got me thinking about how I could do more damage before time gets called, so I'm gonna revise it a little. And it's not like either of us played particularly badly. The dice were hot for both of us to start, then got cold for both of us, both offensively and defensively.

How about this:
 

Darth Vader with Concussion Missiles, Backstabber, ObsidianX3, Academy Pilot.

100 pts, I'm not going to worry about initiative against 99 pt Rebel builds, as my skill levels are 9, 6, and 3 at 3, then 1. I don't think initiative will be an issue. I didn't use Swarm Tactics as much, so I'm okay dropping it for upgrading 2 fighters to Obsidians, which will matter against level 2 Rebel scrubs.



#11 Vorpal Sword

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 02:23 PM

hothie said:

So, I tried out my Imperial squad tonight against a 4 ship Rebel build. After 75 miinutes, neither of us had killed anything, but we played the match out, and it was over 2 hours. I ended up winning, but it got me thinking about how I could do more damage before time gets called, so I'm gonna revise it a little. And it's not like either of us played particularly badly. The dice were hot for both of us to start, then got cold for both of us, both offensively and defensively.

How about this:
 

Darth Vader with Concussion Missiles, Backstabber, ObsidianX3, Academy Pilot.

100 pts, I'm not going to worry about initiative against 99 pt Rebel builds, as my skill levels are 9, 6, and 3 at 3, then 1. I don't think initiative will be an issue. I didn't use Swarm Tactics as much, so I'm okay dropping it for upgrading 2 fighters to Obsidians, which will matter against level 2 Rebel scrubs.

The missiles on Vader are a good idea, and from a metagame standpoint I think you do need to plan around facing 2-3 of those scrubs. This is exactly one of the lists I've been flirting with over the weekend.

With that said, I'm very tempted to demote two of the Obsidians and make the third one into Night Beast. It's a TIE that will be able to evade + focus in the early game and barrel roll + focus in the late game, which means it's defensive when your opponent is at his most powerful and offensive when you need a little extra push to get ahead.



#12 Dewerntz

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 02:24 PM

Does anyone else use r5-k6 with horton? That way you can pump out more target locks.



#13 hothie

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 02:30 PM

With Horton? no. With Dutch, I could see it. Target Locks on Horton at Range 2-3 are a waste because of his ability. They won't do anything that a Focus action wouldn't do.

Sorry, let me revise that statement for the number crunchers out there. Yes, there is a small possibility of getting an extra critical hit or 2 by using a target lock, but for all intents and purposes, using Horton's ability and a focus action will do equally as well.



#14 Dewerntz

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 02:33 PM

hothie said:

With Horton? no. With Dutch, I could see it. Target Locks on Horton at Range 2-3 are a waste because of his ability. They won't do anything that a Focus action wouldn't do.

I meant Dutch. Just typed the wrong name.



#15 hothie

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 02:36 PM

Some do. I don't. Maybe I should, but I like the Ion on Dutch instead of the R5 droid due to my opponent focusing on Wedge. I can use Ions to set up Wedge's shots, and add a little damage. And Dutch will give 1 Target Lock to Wedge, which is all he needs, usually. Besides, until Weapons Engineer becomes legal, ships can only maintain one target lock at a time anyway.



#16 Duraham

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 02:42 PM

oh, so you are unable to make use of stuff from your prize for now?

 

as for your list, it's a big risk, but you may want to try upgrading backstabber to an empty howlrunner, and if she goes down quickly, well at least that damage could've went to Vader but it didn't, so you could sort of look at it positively

 

only issue is that you are now at 9 / 8 /3 /1 /1 /1, so if you are worried about shooting first, there will be a problem. I'd also try to downgrade that last obsidian pilot and put determination somewhere, maybe howlrunner, just in case



#17 DeadInkPen

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 02:50 PM

hothie said:

 

So, I tried out my Imperial squad tonight against a 4 ship Rebel build. After 75 miinutes, neither of us had killed anything, but we played the match out, and it was over 2 hours. I ended up winning, but it got me thinking about how I could do more damage before time gets called, so I'm gonna revise it a little. And it's not like either of us played particularly badly. The dice were hot for both of us to start, then got cold for both of us, both offensively and defensively.

How about this:
 

Darth Vader with Concussion Missiles, Backstabber, ObsidianX3, Academy Pilot.

100 pts, I'm not going to worry about initiative against 99 pt Rebel builds, as my skill levels are 9, 6, and 3 at 3, then 1. I don't think initiative will be an issue. I didn't use Swarm Tactics as much, so I'm okay dropping it for upgrading 2 fighters to Obsidians, which will matter against level 2 Rebel scrubs.

 

 

hothie said:

 

How about this:
 

Darth Vader with Concussion Missiles, Backstabber, ObsidianX3, Academy Pilot.

100 pts, I'm not going to worry about initiative against 99 pt Rebel builds, as my skill levels are 9, 6, and 3 at 3, then 1. I don't think initiative will be an issue. I didn't use Swarm Tactics as much, so I'm okay dropping it for upgrading 2 fighters to Obsidians, which will matter against level 2 Rebel scrubs.

 

 

That could work out. I would give that a run like that, then possibly another run using Vader + Concussion + Marksmanship, Backstabber, APx4.

I would open up with the target lock on the biggest threat, then the other action on marksmanship. This would give the biggest bang for that attack. Plus marksmanship could benefit Vader a bit more then other pilots as he has two actions to spend. Let me give you the math to back that up.

On the Attack Die:

You have a 4 of the sides are hits (3 normal, 1 critical), then 2 sides are blank, and 2 are focus. 

That means there is a 50% chance to hit at any given time. 37.5% of the time it will be normal, 12.5% it will be a cit. Both the blank and focus are each 25% chance.

With the Concussion Missiles and Marksmanship one of the four dice is a 100% gaurantee to hit. The other three dice are then also at a 75% chance to hit with a 25% chance per die to turn one foucs into either a crit or a normal hit. 

Compared to the Defense Die:

3 of the sides are eveade (37.5%), 2 sides are Focus (25%), and 3 sides are blank (37.5%). So if the target has a focus there is a 62.5% chance per die to evade. 

So statistacally it looks favorable to try using marksmanship along with the concussion missle on Vader. 

Hope that helps you out some.



#18 DeadInkPen

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 02:52 PM

 

sorry double post.



#19 hothie

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 03:33 PM

Duraham said:

oh, so you are unable to make use of stuff from your prize for now?

as for your list, it's a big risk, but you may want to try upgrading backstabber to an empty howlrunner, and if she goes down quickly, well at least that damage could've went to Vader but it didn't, so you could sort of look at it positively

only issue is that you are now at 9 / 8 /3 /1 /1 /1, so if you are worried about shooting first, there will be a problem. I'd also try to downgrade that last obsidian pilot and put determination somewhere, maybe howlrunner, just in case

I'm not running Howlrunner and vader again. Been there, done that. End of story. If I show up to any venues with that squad, i will be viewed as only being there to win. Honestly I play to see what and how others are playing, and to have fun. I'm branching out and trying different squads to see how i can do with them. I'm also using different tactics to see what does and doesn't work. I'm changing it up because it's fun to try new and different things. You'll notice 2 of my squads are Rebel squads as well. I haven't play tested either of them. I'm just going to try them out and see how i do. If I lose, who cares? It's a game, have fun.



#20 Duraham

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 03:41 PM

ah ok. you might want to mess around with 2 TIE adv then, those are some pretty interesting imperial builds that are popping up rather recently

 

or with regards to your current list: 

Darth Vader + marksmanship + cluster

backstabber

academy TIE x4

 

 

EDIT: unsure if you are interested, but:

 

Garven / rookie Xwing / Dutch + ion C + R5K6 / Gold Ywing

 

yeah, i've been promoting this list rather blatantly over at AFM, you might want to give it a spin. 6 actions per turn for the entire squad, 7 if you are lucky with the droid






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